Thread: TVNZ Sunday Program on taser use

Just watching this episode of Sunday on TV1 about the use of a taser. Doesn't really appear that balanced at this stage. The reporter hasn't asked the dude why didn't you comply with the officers instructions.
Offender threw a brick at officers, then refused to comply with instructions to get on the ground and was tasered.

What was this person expecting to happen.. just a don't do that again mate and don't worry about not complying with instructions, will come back later and arrest you.

NZ justice system is fucked up, everytime the police have to use force to contain an offender there is a massive investigation.
Its a Officers job to keep the peace, if that means tasering a few fuckwits then I'm all for it. If you dont want to get tasered dont break the law, if you cant follow instructions expect consequnces.

I think they interviewed Marie Dhyberg knowing exactly what your thoughts are tasers are. She's the lawyer that defended Chris Kahui.

@ DC - I was surprised that they went down the brain injury track as how were the officers meant to know he was on meds and had a mental health issue and been mixing alcohol. May as well be able to tell me this weeks wining lotto numbers thanks.

The alternatives.. a firearm or a land shark being released to have a munch on your legs / arms. The two small pricks the prongs make are much less invasive than a set of shepherd fangs.

I didn't watch the whole story, but from what I saw on the taser cam it looked unnecessary.

Yes, he shouldn't have thrown a brick, but that was over when he was tasered - it wasn't like he had another to throw, or was even threatening.

And yes, he should have done as he was told and get on the ground or whatever - but other than simply not doing what he was told he didn't appear to be about to cause further trouble at the point he was tasered, he wasn't even advancing towards the officer.

So the taser seems totally necessary to me.

Originally Posted by osirisboi

@ DC - I was surprised that they went down the brain injury track as how were the officers meant to know he was on meds and had a mental health issue and been mixing alcohol. May as well be able to tell me this weeks wining lotto numbers thanks.

They're not susposed to know any more than if they can know the person they're tasering has a heart condition that could be fatal if tasered. And that's exactly why tasers should only be used strictly when needed - ie pretty much only used as a substitute for a gun.

If its uses as a "substitute for a gun" then if offers no deterrant factor.

If a crim knows that they have a real chance of being tasered, they might think twice.
If they know that the officer cant use it unless its life threatening, then the Crim will carry one with the knowledge that there isnt much the officer can really do.

With the continued use of tasers crims will eventually realise they do not enjoy being tasered and maybe treat the police with some respect (even if its only gained through fear).

If you have a heart problem or medical condition whereby you may die if tasered, its pretty simple. Dont get into a situation where there is the possibility that you may be.
I've been alive almost 24 years and have managed to not get tasered like everyone else on here. No reason why the whole country cant be the same (unrealistic I know)

I didn't watch the documentary, nor do I have any experience in front line policing, so I don't bring much to the table. But...

When Tasers were bought into the police force, a retrospective review of their deployment suggests that you are nearly three times more likely to be tasered by police if you're having a mental health crisis as compared to engaging in criminal activity.

If Tasers are being used as a 'deterrent factor' as some suggest, then maybe they're being pointed at the wrong type of people?
Reference: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/taijlp10.pdf

Didn't watch it but Baxter is full of the lulz as usual, tasers are not used as substitute for a gun, they only have a range of a few meters, but Police guidelines state that if a job requires a firearm then a taser must be bought along also (if avl) if that makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by SwiftSez

I didn't watch the documentary, nor do I have any experience in front line policing, so I don't bring much to the table. But...

When Tasers were bought into the police force, a retrospective review of their deployment suggests that you are nearly three times more likely to be tasered by police if you're having a mental health crisis as compared to engaging in criminal activity.

If Tasers are being used as a 'deterrent factor' as some suggest, then maybe they're being pointed at the wrong type of people?
Reference: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/taijlp10.pdf

So your saying a person who is confirmed to have mental health shouldn't be tasered? if someone is a threat to the public or police it makes no difference.

Nah, fuckit can't be bothered.

I'm not saying anyone should or should not be tasered, I'm not qualified enough to argue that point.

I was simply stating that people in crises get tasered here (and internationally) at a far higher proportion than criminals.
In the above study, a mental health professional was present in nearly half of the incidences, so perhaps there was no other option but to use the taser?

My issue was around the mentality that seems to be 'only bad people get tasered, be good and you wont get tasered', because if you're sick, you might find that isn't strictly true.

What was the whole point of showing that on TV? Seriously!! Just created a shitstorm.

Get the fuck on the ground next time idiot. You can't go around fighting your cousin, smashing neighbours windows, throw a brick at a police officer.

How the hell is the cop to know this guy was a recovering accident victim with a previous head injury, which meant he was dosed up on HARD Prescription drugs and drinking. These guys have to make a judgement call on the spot. Did he deserve it at the time? Maybe not so much but given the situation it was hardly uncalled for.

His missus said she is a Qualified nurse from phillipines and was giving all these statements backing up the fact the drugs he was on, plus alcohol would have made him highly intoxicated, confused, and dis-orientated. Well why the fuck do you let him drink you stupid mole LOL

/morning rant

Originally Posted by SwiftSez

I'm not saying anyone should or should not be tasered, I'm not qualified enough to argue that point.

I was simply stating that people in crises get tasered here (and internationally) at a far higher proportion than criminals.
In the above study, a mental health professional was present in nearly half of the incidences, so perhaps there was no other option but to use the taser?

My issue was around the mentality that seems to be 'only bad people get tasered, be good and you wont get tasered', because if you're sick, you might find that isn't strictly true.

I see your point. Most people who have health issues and are at the point where a taser needs to be deployed for what ever reason, won't (or can't due to said health problems, logic and reason all messed up etc) listen to the docs or police therefore they get zapped. Its a hell of a lot safer, and cheaper, than letting to dog have a munch or the outcry after a gunshot is fired.

Most criminals will listen to logic, see that red dot on their chest and comply.

Originally Posted by Steve-O

I see your point. Most people who have health issues and are at the point where a taser needs to be deployed for what ever reason, won't (or can't due to said health problems, logic and reason all messed up etc) listen to the docs or police therefore they get zapped. Its a hell of a lot safer, and cheaper, than letting to dog have a munch or the outcry after a gunshot is fired.

Most criminals will listen to logic, see that red dot on their chest and comply.

100% agree.

Just touching on Marie Dyhrberg's anti taser campaign. I'm sure she would be more than happy for the taser to be used, if she was about to be cut up by some customer's rally whom she couldn't "get off" charges.

@ SwiftSez -Re the "sick" people at risk of being tasered. If you have a sickness that causes you to nut off and be violent surely there would be a care plan in place to manage that sickness, if that care plan fails then said persons sickness is putting the safety of others and themselves at risk.

Originally Posted by Baxter

So the taser seems totally necessary to me.

That may be a typo but I'm quoting it for posterity.

SwiftSez: The idea isn't ideally "only bad people will get tasered", it's ideally "only people who are an imminent threat to officers and/or the public will get tasered."

Yeah I found the story shocking (lol sorry). I back the Police up 100% for what happened.

You just need to take a look from the police perspective. They get a call from a frightened neighbour who found someone who was under the influence running around at nut chasing someone and then started banging on their window and finally smashed it. The Police turn up expecting something bad and their thoughts are basically confirmed when they find someone under the influence running around like crazy - they then attempt to stop him and have a brick and a piece of concrete thrown at them.

From all of the above details, pulling out the taser seems like a logical option. The idiot had the taser pointed at him and was repeatidly told to get on the ground - he didn't so had the laser shot at him. Problem??? Doesn't seem to be one to me. The idiot was disarmed and the Police and public weren't hurt. Problem solved in my book.

It amazes me that a big sob story was shared that he had an injury and was taking medication, blah blah blah. Its not as if the Police can stop and ask a bunch of questions before tasering/shoting someone. It doesn't work like that.

I back up tasers 100% and I've got no problem with the police carrying guns either.

I'm never going to be at the wrong end of a cop's taser. Yep, I know because it's my decision as it is everyone's. Don't be a fuckwit, don't get tasered.
So..Mr Cop..go nuts buddy. Seriously, aim for the nuts.

Mental health crisis or not.....95% of those mental health crisis are fuelled by alcohol and/or other substances.

Hence the tazer use is 100% viable, its more humane than having a dog attack you, beats being shot and if you are unlucky enough for it to trigger your death due to a heart condition....well what the fuck were you doing trying to cause such a raucus when you have a heart condition anyway ???.....deathwish much ?

Hell I used to commit crime but I sure as shit never resisted, on the occasions I got caught I'd be like "hell yea take me away peacefully", 97% of the time without even breaking out handcuffs......

Goes to show what boundries you have to push before they will use force.

Back da feds on dis 1 g

pepper spray is friendly fire prone and they can work against you as well up close.