handicap race discussion thread

[Steven Price]

Rules for handicaps in HC same as SS2000

[brappn]

No break-out rule has been implemented .........Yet. Something to look at maybe.

[Steven Price]

You guys operate without an enforced breakout rule! I've just be moaning in Classic Jap this isn't implemented

[RichardGee]

Hi Steven, it's one of those things we are always talking about. I guess I would use the example of the handicap winner Gavin Boyne in the last round. Gavin is improving all the time as a driver, and is gradually expoiting more and more from his car. After Race 2 he made a bit of a discover with his tyres and went much better in the third race as a result. I think he got his tyres working really well and knocked his lap times down form 1.49s to 1.47s. For me anyway, it seems we should always try and back this kind of thing rather than punish it. As well as that, he drove well in traffic and kept his lap times up with good passing. On top of that it might sound unbelievable, but I would stick my neck out and say I just haven't seen that kind of driving in the Honda Cup this summer - ie sandbagging. The guys and girls do just go out and race hard. My problem with break out is that it is not that simple. Wet race, everyone does 2 mins then dry race and everyone goes ten seconds quicker at least- the result is then nothing more than a lottery and more than that it punishes the dirvers who drove better in the wet.

That's my opinion on it anyway, but I accept it's a hot topic!

[brappn]

Honesty based, sandbagging is pretty obvious really and if someone can only win like that, then good luck to them. Thats like me calling my engine a 1600 because it has B16B stamped on the block.

[skinnyb]

Whats the point of paying $$$ to go racing, if you are not going to turn up and race the fastest/best that you can?

Its car racing, not chess!!!

[BigAl]

see discussion re handicapping on Honda Cup Forum
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[fiasco]

Honesty based, sandbagging is pretty obvious really and if someone can only win like that, then good luck to them. Thats like me calling my engine a 1600 because it has B16B stamped on the block.

YOu wouldn't be the first person to have done that

[K20a EG Civic]

Experience has taught me that true “sand bagging” is employed when there is something a bit more than normal up for grabs i.e. the winner receives a valuable prize, dollars or extra/double points.

If you have more than one handicap race then you will also see “sand bagging” this is mainly because Handicapping favors (or is perceived to favor) the slower cars in the field, this of course comes down to the formula used (and there is no perfect formula as there are just too many variables).

My suggestion would be to have a handicap rule in there, and then there is no question. Likes Rik’s example, you have a provision for capacity checking in the rules, so why not have something in their to deter sand bagging? that way if/when it is more attractive to sand bag you have it covered.

A sand bagging or breakout rule would not have helped Gavin Boyne, but then I am sure he still would have been over the moon from the reduction in lap times even though he was moved down the results sheet, after all the lap time doesn't change.

My thoughts for what they're worth.

Cheers
BT

[Steven Price]

Unfortunately I can't read the Honda Cup forums Al, coz I've either not siged up or forgot my username/pw from years ago.

In the class I'm currently in, there are cars with almost twice the capacity of mine. So the opportunity is there to do just enough in the first race and then have fun in the following 2 handicap races. Most don't do it of course, imo. The implementation of breakout rules, removes this opportunity.

Regarding the Gavin Boyne example, I think many of us have had that before. For me it was at Ruapuna, when I decided "bugger it - I'll swap back to front tyres"...bingo there was 2s a lap! "Sorry, didn't mean to go that fast". I didn't get penalised, but would have taken it on the chin if I did.

For dry handicaps after wet races/qualifying, do you guys just nominate a time?

[fiasco]

Completely off topic.

If you have HC specific questions regarding the running of the series or rules therein please raise these on appropriate thread in the appropriate forum.

[Steven Price]

Completely off topic.

If you have HC specific questions regarding the running of the series or rules therein please raise these on appropriate thread in the appropriate forum.

Like I said, can't access Honda Cup forums, so easy to just post a comment here. Sorry to offend you.