Thread: Mugen Gen 1 wing? down-force or aesthetic?

Do you have a wing on it at the moment? I found going from no wing to my mugen wing gave it alot more grip in rear end

Mugen Aero parts are all designed to improve high speed grip and handling.

I noticed a difference when I had a Gen1 wing, and thats going from an OEM ITR wing to the Mugen one.

Also have this pic which shows the rear squating down (suspension sat level when stationary) and though I was accelerating at the time I wouldnt have thought that would have caused so much squat:

Certainly dont take it as "proof" it is simply an observation I made

Just install the stock one. It's more then up to the task - then fiddle with the alignment settings. You'll be fine.

Washer up the rear bolts to give it more of a angle and provide more down force.

I wouldn't mess with the stock. Just leave it stock and see how you get on - play with alignment settings and tyre pressures first.

Keep it simple .

ITR OEM wing vs. No wing has been tested and does improve high speed stability on straightaways and high speed corners.

Honda weren't stupid!

.

Originally Posted by Gudgen

ITR OEM wing vs. No wing has been tested and does improve high speed stability on straightaways and high speed corners.

Yet no numbers have been said.

BMI Honda Integra Type R (part one).avi - YouTube

BMI is gospel right?

Not really...

I've measured a few before. The simplest way I've done it without shockpots is to have a scale in the boot that acts against the boot lid. A couple of runs down the road with no/different wings and the op has his answer. Saying things like "high speed" doesn't actually mean anything.

The only useful figure IMO is lap times. Yup there might be a wing that offers more down force and possibly more grip in the corners but it might have a negative effect on the top speed and reduce the lap time overall.

Hard to say.

Sounds like you'd need to go to the track and get some of this 'real world experience' we keep hearing about .

Originally Posted by tysonzane

The only useful figure IMO is lap times. Yup there might be a wing that offers more down force and possibly more grip in the corners but it might have a negative effect on the top speed and reduce the lap time overall.

I disagree. While that is the main outcome, other points of data such as your drag coefficient, change in center of pressure, and lateral acceleration can all be affected by rear wing changes.

Originally Posted by tysonzane

Sounds like you'd need to go to the track and get some of this 'real world experience' we keep hearing about .

Was this addressed to me? I'm part of the design and engineering team for the V8STs. This could be done by someone in the Honda Cup as their rules are quite open.

Q: What is the benefit of down force?
A: Provides higher corning speed.

Q: Are there any negative affects of downforce?
A: Yes, Lower top speed.

Q: What is the benefit of higher corner speed?
A: Reduce sector times.

Q: What is the point of reducing sector times?
A: To win races.

So....

laptime increase (corner speed) - laptime decrease (lower speed) = faster/slower


I agree with tysonzane. While faster in corners, it may have a reduction in top speed that could outweigh the benefit from cornering.



EDIT: There is obviously a great array of factors not accounted for in the above such as; better overtaking ability at corners vs straights etc, but the main point is lap times are basically the best way to prove the effectiveness of a modification if it is for racing purposes.

Originally Posted by illicit

EDIT: There is obviously a great array of factors not accounted for in the above such as; better overtaking ability at corners vs straights etc, but the main point is lap times are basically the best way to prove the effectiveness of a modification if it is for racing purposes.

We've kind of gone off what the original poster was asking a bit I think.

Aero effects more than lap times though.
For instance brake bias, tyre wear, spring stiffness, damper settings, tyre pressures, even tyre compound.
Increased drag effects top speed which mean fiddling with gearing and increased fuel wear.

By knowing how much N per km/h your getting you can choose your spring stiffness accordingly, you can choose correctly sized master cylinders, and you can see how much extra you're loading your tyres.
By knowing what the coefficent of drag is you can calculate how much extra fuel is needed and find a convergence point against wing angle, and you can also calculate an appropriate final drive.

Stuff like that...

Dude, i know what you do - it wasn't a dig at you at all. Wasn't a dig at anyone...

All it was suggesting was that you cant beat track time. IMO people can waste of alot of time following theory when building a car but you simply cant beat track time - thats just my opinion though.

Thanks for over complicating things though .

I still think the OP should just put the OEM wing on and go from there.

Originally Posted by tysonzane

Thanks for over complicating things though .

My pleasure 8)

Indeed track time is paramount. Just remember you're wanting the car to finish the entire race in the quickest time not just a single flying lap.
Theory should be used to initially design and construct your car then track time is used to verify and tune it.

Originally Posted by tysonzane

I still think the OP should just put the OEM wing on and go from there.

I'd go as far as saying keep the whole car standard first but I don't know what experience he has. It's easy to get lost.

What times were you getting?

Built4Speed was saying a while back (Memory really trying here) once he put a GT wing on his Evo race car he was down something like an average 400rpm at the end of the home straight (Which is pretty considerable at high speed) but through the corners he was able to gain up to 10km/hour or so though the faster corners.

/2 fuzzy broken but slightly meaningful cents