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  1. #1
    Team NZH: Order of Merit mick's Avatar
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    Police pursuit policy could create more chases

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...ection=general

    Police pursuit policy could create more chases

    05.03.2004
    11.45am
    More young drivers will attempt to escape police under tough new guidelines for police officers involved in high speed pursuits, the police officers' union says.

    The new policy, which follows a spate of fatal crashes including the death of a speeding motorcyclist and an innocent teenage driver last year, takes effect today.

    The policy puts safety before "immediate" capture of dangerous drivers, establishes clear lines of command in pursuits and says police must slow down and turn off their lights and sirens as soon as they are told to abandon pursuit.

    However Police Association president Greg O'Connor said today although the policy was aimed at protecting innocent motorists it could have the opposite effect.

    Mr O'Connor said the policy could actually have the effect of creating more police chases.

    "Young offenders in fast cars know they only have to plant boot to get away. That might mean you will get more people trying it on," he told NZPA.

    He said there were some indications that was already happening.

    "Officers are telling me that in some areas that is already the case."

    He said while there were inherent risks in high speed chases there were also risks in not chasing dangerous drivers.

    "Safety is what this business is about, but is it safer to let someone who has come to your attention because of their dangerous driving to continue driving dangerously? Or is it safer to pursue them and hopefully stop them."

    Mr O'Connor said the argument that police pursuing a vehicle could merely take the registration number of a dangerous driver then apprehend them the next day was flawed.

    "It then becomes a resource issue. You need people to then follow up the next day and rather than a straight apprehension you have to mount an investigation."

    He said resources would have to be used in locating the car owner, then it would be difficult to prove who was actually driving the car.

    While all this was achievable if the resources were available, no new resources were being promised to back up the new policy.

    He said the policy was partly a knee-jerk reaction to high profile police chases that had ended in death either for the person trying to escape police, or innocent drivers.

    However he said every year dozens of other people died as a result of unapprehended dangerous drivers, but those cases did not grab the same headlines.

    "You could potentially have the situation where there will be more deaths as a result of dangerous drivers, because they are not being apprehended."

    Under the policy police chases will be controlled by a supervisor in a police communications centre.

    Mr O'Connor said while that established clear lines of control there would be strong incentives for the controller to call off the chase.

    "They have everything to lose and very little to gain from a chase like this."

    However the Automobile Association (AA) today welcomed the new policy saying that overall it would protect innocent motorists.

    Public affairs director George Fairbairn said the AA recognised there were cases where pursuits were required, but in many cases there were other options available.

    "In many of these chases in the past they've gone on for longer than they probably should of because of that ability for a more individual decision to be made on the part of an officer on where and when it should stop," he told NZPA.

    Mr Fairbairn said some people would undoubtedly try and flout the law as a result of the new policy, but overall the new procedures would ensure the safety of innocent motorists.

    "The overriding concern has to be 'is a pursuit really necessary?' and are there other means to stop that person doing what they are doing and apprehending them.

    "At the end of the day We have to limit the occasions where innocent people can be unnecessarily killed as a result of a pursuit."

    The new police guidelines follow a review which took into account the death of 18-year-old Erin Burgess, who was hit by a motorcyclist chased by police near Whangarei last May.

    The police chase was seriously criticised by the Northland Coroner. After the inquest the coroner urged changes in pursuit policy and in police attitudes, recommending chases be limited to a few kilometres near built-up areas.

    Announcing the changes yesterday, Assistant Police Commissioner Peter Marshall said the "stringent" revised policy emphasised the responsibility of police for the safety of public and staff.

    The new policy states that:

    * public and staff safety takes priority over immediate apprehension of a suspect;

    * officers must decide whether a pursuit can be justified and work with their shift supervisor to re-evaluate the safety risk throughout the pursuit;

    * supervisors at police communications centres have authority to order a pursuit be abandoned; and

    * when abandoning a chase, officers must immediately turn off lights and sirens, reduce speed to within the limit and then stop their vehicle on the roadside. All police cars involved must stop chasing the suspect.

    The Whangarei chase is also being re-investigated by Christchurch Detective Superintendent Malcolm Burgess after some of the coroner's findings differed from the initial police investigation.

    New Zealand First's law and order spokesman, Ron Mark, said he agreed with police officers who were sceptical about the policy.

    "Many young offenders are already taking advantage of perceived weaknesses within the police force not to pursue offenders at speed," he said.

    "The new policy is a reaction to the run of fatal accidents that police have been involved in recently, but sadly all it is going to do is give boy racers more opportunity to bait officers knowing the pursuit will be called off."

    - NZPA
    Subby.

  2. #2
    7,000rpm (Peak Power) Macros's Avatar
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    Re: Police pursuit policy could create more chases

    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    The Whangarei chase is also being re-investigated by Christchurch Detective Superintendent Malcolm Burgess after some of the coroner's findings differed from the initial police investigation.
    wtf! im not a detective superintendent!
    someones stolen my name!!

  3. #3
    7,000rpm (Peak Power) cubic's Avatar
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    I think this is bad news.
    The internet has so far disproved the theory that a million monkeys sitting at a million typewriters would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

  4. #4
    1HOTCIVIC
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    well the police must crack down on these people but still chasing them is endangering the public!! :evil:

  5. #5
    6,000rpm (Max Torque) asia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1HOTCIVIC
    well the police must crack down on these people but still chasing them is endangering the public!! :evil:
    oh ok.....so your car gets stolen and you run to the cops 10 metres away and instead of them getting in the car and chasing them, you would must rather settle for.
    "Its alright son, we'll just wait for them stop then we'll go looking for the car"

  6. #6
    11,000rpm (Spoon B16B!!) Gudgen's Avatar
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    it doesnt matter wat they say or wat bill they pass, there are always gonna be opposition to planned proposals..as they said there are negative effects to both sides of the coin.

    young men and fast cars dont mix.

    young men in cop cars dont mix.

    but i think the nz police are trying to calm down there officers with this as well as "supposedly" increasing public safety. cause that whagez incident was as much as the young police drivers fault as the speeding motorists fault.

  7. #7
    3,000rpm (Grandma Drag) Girvs's Avatar
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    who gives a **** about the public. give the cops more power. And bring back the death penalty!! :twisted:

    Just joking, I wreckon more people will just try and do the runner now, or more than they used to. Its getting all too PC, and hippy for my liking, before long they won't be allowed to use road spikes incase someone thinks its an OSH hazard

  8. #8
    Team NZH: Order of Merit mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gudgen
    young men and fast cars dont mix.
    and this is something that NEVER go away

    so might as well learn to live with it and build more drag strips
    Subby.

  9. #9
    4,000rpm (Taxi Drag) tarkiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    Quote Originally Posted by Gudgen
    young men and fast cars dont mix.
    and this is something that NEVER go away

    so might as well learn to live with it and build more drag strips
    Well they also could/should bring in a rule about not being allowed to drive a car with more than a certain amount of power or power to weight ratio until you've had a certain amount of experience. Similar to motorcycle licences.

  10. #10
    1598cc
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    Quote Originally Posted by Gudgen
    young men and fast cars dont mix.
    and this is something that NEVER go away

    so might as well learn to live with it and build more drag strips
    Exactly.

    In some ways it is better, in alot, its not.

    ASIA - of course theyll chase after you.. just will give up in dangerous situations.. which is better..

    Think about it: School 3:15 pm..kids get out.

    Some dude in a stolen car is being chased by the police past the school. hits a kid.

    Some dude in a stolen car, was being chased by police, no one following him, and is now more cautious around the school, and doesnt have to gun it as theres no one behind him

    I think its a good idea, IF used appropretly

  11. #11
    5,000rpm (VTEC Power!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkiwi
    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    Quote Originally Posted by Gudgen
    young men and fast cars dont mix.
    and this is something that NEVER go away

    so might as well learn to live with it and build more drag strips
    Well they also could/should bring in a rule about not being allowed to drive a car with more than a certain amount of power or power to weight ratio until you've had a certain amount of experience. Similar to motorcycle licences.

    yeah but do u think people would listen to that look at the guy you died in auckland on bush road in albany by hitting the truck he was speeding and had no licence he had no exp on motorbikes but yet he brought one and died a few days later.

  12. #12
    4,000rpm (Taxi Drag) tarkiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOLF
    Quote Originally Posted by tarkiwi
    Well they also could/should bring in a rule about not being allowed to drive a car with more than a certain amount of power or power to weight ratio until you've had a certain amount of experience. Similar to motorcycle licences.

    yeah but do u think people would listen to that look at the guy you died in auckland on bush road in albany by hitting the truck he was speeding and had no licence he had no exp on motorbikes but yet he brought one and died a few days later.
    Darwinism

  13. #13
    11,000rpm (Spoon B16B!!) Gudgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick
    Quote Originally Posted by Gudgen
    young men and fast cars dont mix.
    and this is something that NEVER go away

    so might as well learn to live with it and build more drag strips
    people will still do ilegal things no matter how many drag strips there are. thats the whole point of rebellion.

  14. #14
    fuck that scre the cops
    JDM S15
    JDM R34 GT-R comming next

  15. #15
    6,000rpm (Max Torque) crshbndct's Avatar
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    i dont get it - just dont speed and you wont have problems with being pulled over.

    dont speed
    dont do skids
    dont go to illegals
    dont pay fines late
    dont do anything stupid in a car on the road becasue it is dangerous
    dont even accelerate faster tehn teh surrouding traffic up to teh legal limit
    and you wont have any worries

    i drive like a nana on the street and you dont hear of any nanas getting in car chases.

    and to the idiot who said screw the police: you are a fucking tool, you will be loving the police when they are saving your life after you are in a car wreck.
    Current: CE1/EB1 Previous: AW11, R32, KE70, KE70, VPv8, da6, ef7, EB1, en1, cd4, bighorn, a183a, a183a, a184a, bg8z, e30, and a coupla saabs

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by asia
    Quote Originally Posted by 1HOTCIVIC
    well the police must crack down on these people but still chasing them is endangering the public!! :evil:
    oh ok.....so your car gets stolen and you run to the cops 10 metres away and instead of them getting in the car and chasing them, you would must rather settle for.
    "Its alright son, we'll just wait for them stop then we'll go looking for the car"
    Too right! I'm in favour of quickly ending pursuits by any reasonable means possible, even if it means endangering the safety of the stupid c*nt running away. Letting criminals get away just because they're breaking the speed limit is not cool. Fuck, I could kill several people and get away just by gunning it over 110km/h...thats a scary thought. What the hell is wrong with lawmakers.

    Instead give the police authority to end chases quickly. Pursuits are dangerous, the longer they're allowed to go on, the longer the public's in danger. Better to put the offender out of commission than have some ordinary Joe/Jane returning home from a long night's work get smacked down.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1598cc
    ASIA - of course theyll chase after you.. just will give up in dangerous situations.. which is better..

    Think about it: School 3:15 pm..kids get out.

    Some dude in a stolen car is being chased by the police past the school. hits a kid.

    Some dude in a stolen car, was being chased by police, no one following him, and is now more cautious around the school, and doesnt have to gun it as theres no one behind him

    I think its a good idea, IF used appropretly
    Well, lets explore that a little...maybe it wasn't a stolen car, maybe it was a drunk/otherwise dangerous driver. Adjacent suburb to school, 3:02pm: Motorist spots a driver weaving all over the road at speed. Dials *555. 3:12pm: Police car in the area moves to intercept, lights up. 3:15pm: Kids walk out of school. 3:16pm: Offending Driver exceeds 110km/h, pursuing officer ordered off chase. Slows down, lights off, stop. 3:17pm: Offending vehicle hits curve before school at excessive speed. Loses control. School's been out for 2 minutes, crowd has gathered at pedestrian crossing. Car hits crowd at 65km/h.

    Cut to the funeral scene.

  17. #17
    7,000rpm (Peak Power) cubic's Avatar
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    If you think about it, you don't need to gun it through the school area, even if the cops are on your tail. They're not exactly going to fish tail you in front of a school. You might as well just go at 30km/h through there and then gun it when you leave!

    Of course, no-one would actually think of that...

    We need guns like the ones on 2F2F, except without the Hollywood remote feedback screens. It shouldn't be too hard to build some kind of EMP gun to knock out a car's electronics, surely?
    The internet has so far disproved the theory that a million monkeys sitting at a million typewriters would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

  18. #18
    Team NZH: Order of Merit RJ's Avatar
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    I was minding my own business lastnight driving down Remuera Rd. A dark blue SiR Accord came sliding round the corner very nearly hitting me. He already had his wing mirror hanging off...

    Then I saw the red and blue lights come slowly round the corner. The SiR was nailing it down Remuera Rd and the cop was going suprising slow. We then took our normal short cut through the back streets of Remuera and came round a corner to a nasty crash scene...

    The SiR had gone round the corner WAY to fast trying to get away from the cops and had the lost the rear, over corrected, then played pinball with the parked cars...

    Was very scary for my mate and I being so close to being T-boned. Still not sure why the cop was going so slow?
    Honda-less for the first time since 1999

  19. #19
    8,000rpm (B Series Redline!) Soichiro's Avatar
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    Well if the Police are that concerned why don't they TRAIN for these situations. You see it all the time on overseas programs, they are taught to cope with these idiots e.g when to take them out, when to back off etc. Right now we have young graduates from a skid pan out in a powerful patrol car with little real experience and a lot of testosterone as witnessed by a spate of police crashes down here.

    Just because you're a cop doesn't mean you're the worlds greatest driver, so why not have specialists for when it happens, I mean they don't send young constables blindly into an armed offender situation. They send trained squads.

    This would give the cops a lot more public credibility rather than all the negatives from hassling drivers with legal certified cars about ride height, neons or fluffy dice on the mirror.

    It's gonna get worse, and everyone will suffer otherwise, even the innocent.
    Please remember when you're driving, don't floor it, 104 it

  20. #20
    8,000rpm (B Series Redline!) NAspirated's Avatar
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    at present the police are ordered to discontinue a chase as soon as an offending vehicle reaches 140km/h.

    this is just a hyperbolic undertoning of P.C. Bullshit.

    The ONLY reason this shit is croping up is because of the (never-ending) bad reputation of the NZ police. They screw up (for whatever reason, i dont give a shit), and the (WO)MAN takes away their power.

    but hey, now that they cant chase people, maybe theyll have more time to pull people over and nitpick what only THEY think is an "illegal" modification..

    man, sometimes i really LOVE this festering rectal itch of a country
    there once was a signature here

  21. #21
    1HOTCIVIC
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubic
    We need guns like the ones on 2F2F, except without the Hollywood remote feedback screens. It shouldn't be too hard to build some kind of EMP gun to knock out a car's electronics, surely?
    hahahah now that would be pretty cool but stuff the car could go out of control and hit oncoming traffic

  22. #22
    1598cc
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1HOTCIVIC
    Quote Originally Posted by cubic
    We need guns like the ones on 2F2F, except without the Hollywood remote feedback screens. It shouldn't be too hard to build some kind of EMP gun to knock out a car's electronics, surely?
    hahahah now that would be pretty cool but stuff the car could go out of control and hit oncoming traffic

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