Clutch Not Disengaging - FIXED (See Final Comment)

[mulac]

Hi Everyone,

OK, this problem has been here for almost a year now, decided I should actually get my car going again now whilst I've got the long weekend. (I know, Slack).

The symptoms all started when I started finding it hard to put it into gear with the clutch in. Id push the clutch in, and I'd find it hard to push it into gear, but it would go into gear. (At this stage I just thought, OK, Honda's always do this). Then it got even harder, and harder, until it got to the stage where when I pushed the clutch in, it didn't even feel like the clutch was in, the only way to get it into the next gear would be to rev it up to where it moved into gear nicely.
I got it home ok. Then I tried to drive it the next day, and I couldn't get the damn thing into gear. Sat there, tried to put the car into gear, didnt work. As i was pushing the gearstick up to 1st gear, the car moved forward.

Car as follows:
1990 EF9 stock B16A
98 Spec Integra Type R Gearbox (S80?)
Cable to Hydro conversion.
Heavy duty clutch
700kg pressure Plate
I/H/E etc..

After lots of research, I tried everything I could find, which wasn't much. I bled the clutch as I thought this could be a problem, with no luck, clutch fluid was coming through nicely.
Only thing I could think of it being was the Clutch/Pressure Plate. So this weekend (We finally got the garage built), I ripped out the motor, split the motor and gearbox and found a few things that could be causing the problem.
First off, the pressure plate teeth are VERY slightly bent, but enough that you can tell when you look at it closely. How bent would the pressure plate teeth have to be to be causing a problem like I had?

DSC00051.jpg

Also, the edges of the pressure plate have been rubbing against something, and has been rooting the housing of the gearbox, (This could possibly be causing something aswell).

DSC00054.jpg
DSC00055.jpg

I have taken photos of the clutch, not sure if this will help with diagnosing the problem?

DSC00053.jpg


Any help would be great.
If you think I do need a new pressure plate/clutch, any recommendations? The one I had in was a real Bit(# to use on road, I would rather have something that I could use in traffic without killing my leg

Also, almost forgot to add this, as I'm guessing could be an important part to why it happened, the Nolothane engine mounts all split, so I realised my engine was just roaming around inside the engine bay.?

R00T%D
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Just ask for any more information, as I might've missed some out.

Thanks heaps for your help, can't wait to get her back on the road

** Car still run's fine, I've been overseas for 7 months, so the familys been starting her up and running the motor for a good 15 minutes every 2 weeks. It just can't be driven thats all.

[SK1TZ- EF]

Its cause you have a gay haircut...get that fixed, and all will be sorted...j/k

I say it has alot to do with some of the pressure plate probs, and possibly the engine mounts being fuxed

lemme know how you go...I have tools etc if you want a hand with anything (nights only tho)

cheers

sam

[Tompen]

U still only working at night sam?

My guess would be pressure plate

[SK1TZ- EF]

I dont have any days off until next fri/sat and I will be busy then aswell.

I am good for nights before then, else my next weekday off will be tuesday 10th june

sam

[mulac]

Ahh yeah, I thought it was pressure plate, but the teeth are only SLIGHTLY bent, so thats why I thought twice
Whats your number Sam? I'll take it down, want to see your car with my ex motor in it.

[swishR]

Make sure clutch cable is sealed on tight and no slits causing any leaks?

I remember this happened to my friends eg civic and he had the clutch cable replaced and it was good as new.

[SK1TZ- EF]

do hydro boxes have a cable?

[mulac]

Originally Posted by SK1TZ- EF

do hydro boxes have a cable?

My thought exactly?

Like I said, I bled the lines and clutch fluid was flowing nicely, didn't know of any cables on an hydro box?

[mulac]

Images added. Does the pressure plate look bad enough to be causing an issue?
Cheers

[Soichiro]

By teeth you mean the pressure plate fingers? If they're a bit dicey then bin it, well if it's rubbing I'd do that anyway because it sounds like it doesn't belong in there and interference is causing it to jam when you push the pedal. That's what's bending the fingers and it'll dump itself eventually, fit a whole kit because it may have caused other damage and if it goes it'll damage other stuff. My mate lost a gearbox when this happened and chewed the bellhousing area up.

[mulac]

Originally Posted by Soichiro

By teeth you mean the pressure plate fingers? If they're a bit dicey then bin it, well if it's rubbing I'd do that anyway because it sounds like it doesn't belong in there and interference is causing it to jam when you push the pedal. That's what's bending the fingers and it'll dump itself eventually, fit a whole kit because it may have caused other damage and if it goes it'll damage other stuff. My mate lost a gearbox when this happened and chewed the bellhousing area up.

Oops, yeah fingers, no idea what they're called, but thought I'd take a shot at it

I think it belongs in there. It would've been caused from constant rocking and smashing of the engine (With an ATS 1.5 Way LSD, with stuffed engine mounts) it wouldnt've been very blissful on the rest of the drivetrain I'd say. So judging by the photo's you'd say to ditch the whole thing? Incl Flywheel? It couldn't be anything else causing the problem could it?

Also, my idgit mate tried to pop off the CV Outer off the end of the gearbox using a Jimmi bar. I managed to stop him in time and show him that the driveshaft just pulls out from the other side Anyway, he managed to pop it off slightly, and it now has about 5-8mm movement back and forth. Is this normal, I know he popped it out a little bit but is this something i should worry about? It aint going to come out any further. I felt the other side and it only had about 2-3mm movement. Let me know if it is, and how I can replace it or fix it up if possible

Thanks for your help guys, Highly Appreciated

[Soichiro]

Sorry, not being clever just making sure they were the right things.

Flywheel would probably be OK but my feeling is if they're bent then there's been a awful lot of pressure somewhere and they won't last. Perhaps take the clutch plate itself to a mechanic and get him to check it for cracks but it's not a job you want to do twice.

On my mates car some of the fingers actually snapped off but it kept going, they scraped on the flywheel and ripped up the gearbox then finally locked up the whole engine (it was a Toyota so that's OK) hellish mess when we pulled the box

[mulac]

Yeah, see his ones were so bent they almost snapped off. Mine are nowhere near that point, hardly even bent at all. And to run into these problems on an 800kg pressure plate I want a new one anyway, sucked to have a plate that heavy. But I don't want to replace stuff unecassarily.

Haha, I love it, Toyota so that was OK

[mulac]

OK, So i'm looking for a new clutch and pressure plate now. My flywheel looks like it is without damage, so I think i'll let that stay.
Anybody know what sort I should be going for? Or any recommendations?
I had a 800kg pressure plate, which is probably way to much for what i wanted. I want something that I won't loose any power getting to the wheels, but I realise for my setup I don't need anything quite as crazy as what I had.
Thanks

[SK1TZ- EF]

go for a Type R factory Clutch?

[mulac]

Would I feel a power loss going down to an R clutch from my old Heavy duty?

[DC2r]

Nah be sweet as, go with the tried and true, OEM itr clutch kit with an uprated pressure plate.. Theres a place in upperhut MP autoparts, that does this sorta stuff. streetable whilst having good bite and no slippage.

[BTLF3D]

that pressure plate looks fine from that side, its the underside that matters...

a type r clutch that has been uprated will probly be about the same pedal feel as that clutch you have now.

you shouldnt loose any power if you change to a type r clutch, actually why even change that clutch plate? it is still a full face plate which should be pretty smooth...

:s some funny replies in here lol

[mulac]

Lol Who Am I Supposed To Listen to!?
Should I upload a picture of the inside of the pressure plate, so then somebody can tell me if it needs replacing?
I'm just really worried that there's another problem that I don't know about
Clutch has HEAPS of meat I think, I think it just has scratches (some rather deep) on the surface. (As seen in photo.)

If I can get away with just doing the pressure plate, it would be recommended, as my clutch is still Grippy as hell, just cant UnGrip it that's all *Technological Term - Ungrip.

[mulac]

??

[Soichiro]

Lost track of this

OK have had a good look and this is my humble opinion:

I don't like the sound of your pressure plate TBH, I can't recommend taking a chance because it's rubbing and/or jamming somewhere so if anything, that's what I'd treat as suspect. My opinion, bin it.

Check the clutch plate for - broken springs, any cracks on the centre hub area, marks in the clutch surface should be OK if it's not disintegrating so it's probably good from the fotos. Make sure the spline slides freely on the input shaft (a little smear of grease won't hurt)

Thrust bearing, check that it turns OK and that the bearings aren't "lumpy", make sure it slides freely on the input shaft sleeve and fork ends and not binding (again a grease smear is good).

If that all works then throw it together with another pressure plate, I think there's a 95% chance it'll be good.

Cheers.

[mulac]

Well, just a quick update.

I took my Flywheel, Clutch and P Plate down to Greg @ MP AutoParts - Great guy Might I add for anyone needing Brake/Clutch work or opinions.

He is going to do a full clamp test and make sure everything is OK with all the parts. Then we'll move back from there.

Will keep everyone updated

[mulac]

Ok All,
It seems like my pressure plate, clutch and flywheel is clamping fine.

Just had it down at MP Autoparts and got it all tested. Pressure plate rated at 1800Lb No wonder I get a sore leg.

So, what now I wonder? Mabye I need to do a double check of the hydrolic system?

I bled it at the gearbox, and it seemed that fluid was coming through fine?

Is there anything else inside the gearbox that could be causing this problem? I got the spigget bearing replaced. Would the release bearing be causing something like this? I could hear any whine when I was using it, so I dought thats the problem?

Any other idea's would be great help.

Thanks heaps

[mortz]

you said the pedal went dead?

you could have a bung master cylinder or slave cylinder.

[mulac]

I just got told that today

After everything I've done, I realised it is most likely my slave cylinder. I wouldn't say my Master, as I bled it at the Slave and it seemed fine. Crikey.

I'm going to swap the Slave, and get back to you.

The Pedal didn't feel Dead. It still had heaps of strength in it (Still really hard to press) It just didn't do anything