The Current Direction of New Zealand - (aka Political Thread)

[VTAKYO]

This seems to be a hot topic on these forums at the moment, with much discussion regarding increases in taxation - both regional and national. New Zealanders are starting to really feel the burn of the Governments branding stick, the flavours of the month being political correctness and clean-green.

As much as I love this country, some things are becoming too much of a joke. IE:
- Proposed greenhouse tax on petrol, as well as regional petrol tax to assist in road development; our huge budget surplus yet there is still need to increase tax? Also, the government is blatantly ignoring the request for removing GST on essentials regardless of how many families are suffering.
- A father has been charged for flicking his sons ear.
- Helens speeding motorcade results in no convicions, but "boyracers" feel the full scorn of the law/media. Trial by media has become a popular method, regardless of whether their facts are straight or not.

A career overseas is becoming too enticing. As did the 80,000+ New Zealanders who decided to leave last year.

Where do people see this country going?
What do you think can be done to assist us?

Make this a discussion of all things political.

[grandell]

uncle helen ftl
Labour is turning this country into a nanny state, and people are getting so used to living on subsidys and handouts that they've forgotten that they'd be better off if they didn't have to pay for them in tax in the first place

and then there are the Greens...

the sooner we can get a National government that makes people responsible for their own shit, the better off we'll all be
obviously National aren't perfect either, and people will bitch about state assets being sold and stuff like that, but at least its a step in the right direction

[d16a7]

i did have a big post written up but basically too much ranting in it so here is the Gist of it...

we as a nation are going backwards, students are up to their eyeballs in debt, student allowance conditions to get them are ridiculous (yet its soo much easier to just go on the doll), and sir helen is a useless twat that is so tied up with saving the earth she cant even save our own country.. and michael cullen is a wanker.. this is all IMO and i really cant be bothered explaining my reasoning.. but yeah

[Soichiro]

To put it succinctly - total lack of leadership

I don't mean the "travel over to a summit and go hyuk hyuk to everything" leadership, I mean Helen's personal leadership and responsibility.

I always thought she had it, I interviewed her years ago before she became PM and she promised she'd stay true to her working class union roots. That she hasn't done so is an indictment she has to live with, and like many other working class people I feel betrayed by her and her party.

The sad thing for NZ is that the suffering is not only because she has attempted to retain control despite the failure of those personal attributes with bluster, bullying and draconian laws, but that it has allowed the crazies on the political fringe to breed and take control in such a poisonous atmosphere.

Can she see it I wonder, or has it become lost in the quest for political power at all cost? She could have made such a huge difference to this country, but in the end Helen seems to be another scared child with big dreams huddling in a corner because the hugeness of the political sandbox became too agoraphobic.

The answer? There isn't one at the moment because I can't see a personality with that kind of strength anywhere on the political horizon. All I can think of is what you suggest, individually and collectively NZ'ers need to grow some gonads, stop indulging in a greedy and selfish blame game by making scapegoats of our youth and those less fortunate, and start demanding more of ourselves and our politicians.

This culture of fear and hatred has to stop before we can even look at progressing from what seems to be a modern-day Orwellian nightmare. As it stands it's destroying any chance of a decent future.

/epic rant of Homeric proportions. Movie rights available

[simonr]

Politics needs to take a stand for the good of New Zealand as a whole, not just for personal promotion and staying in power at all costs. What benefit is it to New Zealand when the politicians spend their little time they spend in parliament, harassing other members because of some little personal issue before then falling asleep when it comes to real issues!

MMP has serious flaws, it creates too many politicians for a country so small. We have no representation over our Prime Minister. And it that it seems to do is just create politicians only thinking in the foreseeable future - not worrying about the state of NZ in ten years...

Come on our politicians just spent $700 million buying back a railway system that will now be overrun with bureaucrats as it was 20 years ago - all at the taxpayers expense.

They are giving $190 million for the new stadium in Auckland. Come on, a stadium should be able to pay for itself, if not, don't build it!

Nearly a billion dollars into investments that should be funded by private hands, not public.

When are they going to do something about our power situation?
Or the state of NZ's roads.
Or the fact that NZ's just lost 30,000 jobs.
Distorted investment in NZ through the housing markets leaving our business struggling to get the investment they need, even though we have huge inflows of investment. (just look at our CA deficit and high interest rates)

[David R]

Too many bureaucrats and not enough common sense pretty much sums it up.

The current taxation wouldn't be so bad if we had first-class services provided for us (although the tax brackets should be adjusted for inflation), instead we have doctors either on strike or moving overseas, a huge and ever increasing level of student debt, roading and infrastructure that is barely coping with todays needs let alone tomorrows. The government need to scrap the budget and start again, prioritising with health, education, law enforcement and infrastructure, pretty much giving them as much money as they require to be the best in the world before the likes of NZ On Air get a cent to make scribes latest music video. Although when the country is run by a woman with no dependents earning over $400k P.A + perks, who has been a career politician her entire life, is it really surprising that she has no idea of budgeting and priorities?
Politicians wages should be fixed and should only increase at the rate of inflation, unless the vast majority of people approve of it in a binding referendum, and they should also scrap the Maori seats and reduce the number of MP's to 99.

I can't stand this labour government, and really hope they get voted out this year. Although, I don't see national being a knight in shining armour riding in on a white horse to save the day, in fact I'm not sure how much better they will be governing by themselves (or heaven forbid with the maori party or the greens). I think Key has dropped his nuts and is trying to be as central as possibly [instead of sticking to his right-wing roots] to try to sway the labour voters. My only hope is that in doing this he will lose a lot of right-wing votes to act, meaning they would have to work with act to form a government.


oh, what was the question again? The direction of New Zealand?
In one word; down. Will it get any better after the election, probably not.

[David R]

From the Goals thread:

Originally Posted by VTAKYO

Ditto - our "base" tax rate may not be as much, but everything else is taxed to an extent where it really adds up as Steven has pointed out above. The rise in political correctness and "green" values is ruining this country. Valuable and skilled workers are being lost because of this.

Can someone with a bit of spare time work out how much a liter of petrol actually costs you? In terms of how much tax you pay when you earn the money, then when you buy the petrol an pay the petrol tax and gst.

[Ignition22]

i read petrol in the states is equivalent of $1nz a litre

[Moclov]

Originally Posted by David R

The government need to scrap the budget and start again, prioritising with health, education, law enforcement and infrastructure, pretty much giving them as much money as they require to be the best in the world before the likes of NZ On Air get a cent to make scribes latest music video.

I completely agree with you on that one!

On a long enough time scale, minor adjustments to a system invariably seem to result in a giant, over-complicated mess that doesn't achieve what you want - Or if it does achieve what you want it's highly inefficient! It's certainly the case with hardware and software and I've seen many examples even in my very short career. I don't see why a financial budget is any different.
Somebody needs to sit down, re-prioritise what the country needs and what the public wants, and budget for that, instead of tweaking what the country needed and wanted the last time this process was done (hopefully more recently than 1864...).

[VTAKYO]

The tax (including GST) on a litre of 91 Octane has increased from 22 percent in 1982 to 50 percent in June 2005. This goes some way to explaining why the price at the pump has increased as it has over the last couple of decades.

Shell New Zealand - Petrol Pricing

[Dionysus]

I'm more than happy to pay tax. GST is simple and I don't think there should be exceptions.
Yes I agree that the welfare system is so so, but it's still a safe place to live.
There are two schools of thought for welfare.
A. The proliferation or "career mothers", keep having kids and the taxpayer will pay for it.
Bear in mind they aren't going to be getting much more than 700 gross a week regardless of how many they have.
B. Back to the bad old days where the pregnant unmarried woman was chased out of town to have the baby and give it up.

If welfare was suddenly cut, crime would sky rocket. Well in certain areas anyway.
As far as I can figure it I would be eligible for about $150 if I had to go on the dole (single, childless, 26 year old male)
I certainly don't view it as a lifestyle choice.
There is always going to be hypocrisy in any government (Helen's motorcade and the crackdown on boyracers). Again easy enough to avoid if your car isn't 10mm or something from the ground and have a quiet exhaust.
As for removing the duty from petrol and gst from food, it would only be a temporary measure. The price of crude has double in 17 months, if they did that at the start, it would be gone by now.
Too many people get hung up on tax. I know someone who is a partner at a global accountancy firm whose income has been over 600,000 for the last decade or so, constantly whining about tax and welfare. Must be tough living off over $7000 a week net.
Put's my $516 or so into perspective.
However, I wonder sometimes how much the current government affects my everyday life and whether it's unique to me.
Petrol, affects everybody and everything. Welcome to an oil based economy, from moving goods and food to selling grain for biofuel instead of bread. Farmers aren't going to suddenly say, well we really ought to sell this to the breadmakers instead. This is a capitalist society, if you aren't growing then your going backwards.
Day to day, I couldn't care less where my tax dollars go. I go to the doctor, it costs money. I buy groceries, it costs money. There are no potholes in the roads near me or weeds growing out of the footpaths. I don't have much leftover after putting a little away and essentials. But I choose to spend it to enable me to play golf, and ride my mountain bike. And when I'm doing either of those I'm happy to be ignorant.

I would rather pay more tax, and be able to go to the doctor or dentist free. Cutting off a solo mum's income doesn't make sense to me.

Rant over.

[Danielle]

Well I have no idea where NZ is headed. Politics confuses me though.. People put forward what they are going to do for the welfare of our country & then they go ahead and change it once they're chosen to do what they promised...

I think the way that social welfare is giving every Tom, Dick & Harry the dole over the last year is not a good sign as our goverment debt will suffer more. I think that the amount of people that come over from foreign countries and can't speak a sentence of english is not a good sign because they find it very hard to get employment. I think the way tax money is spent to fund a footy field is a little weak ... surely with the amount of footy fans we have the money could be raised another way.

But I do not know what to do to stop all of this. Labour & National in my eyes are very similar. They may debate it but I think NZ isn't going to change significantly unless somehow ACT gets voted in.

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

The massive trend towards political correctness is one of the things that gets me the most. Helen is so morally corrupt its repulsive....

[doo0T!doo0T!]

I decided while listening to the old goat have her say on bfm thismorning that it's not so much the Prime Minister thats the proplem I think it's all the other people who think they are the Prime Minister too and just cant help waving their flag.

IMO Helen is tarred with the same brush as any of them. However I cant think of any politician i would rather have in her place. They are all the same to me.
Some of those ego mongers down there need to remember they are civil servants not shitty kiwi celebrities.
Get your ass off dancing with the stars and get it back down to wellington.

I think ditch MMP, slash the seat numbers in half, put relevently skilled and experienced people in Ministerial positions.
Give the BMW's back and at least buy cars manufactured by the neighbours.

Ditch the Maori seats, all seats should be open to anyone of any ethic group who calls NZ their home, all seats should represent the whole people not individual groups.

[WingIt]

I would much rather live in NZ than so many other countries, dont know what your all complaining about. As I see it we've got it pretty sweet

[KLRVTC]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I'm more than happy to pay tax. GST is simple and I don't think there should be exceptions.
Yes I agree that the welfare.....
....I would rather pay more tax, and be able to go to the doctor or dentist free. Cutting off a solo mum's income doesn't make sense to me.

x2 on everything said.

Originally Posted by WingIt

I would much rather live in NZ than so many other countries, dont know what your all complaining about. As I see it we've got it pretty sweet

agreeed.

[CRRUPT]

Originally Posted by WingIt

I would much rather live in NZ than so many other countries, dont know what your all complaining about. As I see it we've got it pretty sweet

Agreed, Nz is a good place to live. But for how long at this rate? the country just seems to be going backwards, debt and taxes are at an all time high, and its hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel, the shits gotta hit the fan somewhere as things get more and more expensive and we dont seem to be getting payed anymore, or getting payrises respective to inflation. Its hard to be positive i guess.

[simonr]

Originally Posted by WingIt

I would much rather live in NZ than so many other countries, dont know what your all complaining about. As I see it we've got it pretty sweet

Not really...

NZ was top of the world 50 years ago, highest GDP per capita and solid growth. However, shitty government, poor growth has seen NZ slipt to the near bottom of developed countries in the last 50 years.

At this rate, give it another 20 years and we will be struggling to compete living standards with the likes of Aus, the U.S and U.K, let alone the booming economies of Korea, China and Vietnam.

So we don't have it sweet, people should really be more concerned about the direction it is heading and how we can fix it.

[VTAKYO]

I would much rather live in NZ than so many other countries, dont know what your all complaining about. As I see it we've got it pretty sweet

Yes, I would agree with that to an extent. Hence the reason I would stay in NZ if things did pan out in a better way than they appear to be heading, or return to NZ later in the future - if things improved. As of now NZ is fine, I can cope; there are many qualities to be proud of... I just worry that current trends may ruin these qualities.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I would rather pay more tax, and be able to go to the doctor or dentist free. Cutting off a solo mum's income doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with you, to a point, but don't you get the feeling that our tax isn't really be used as efficiently as possible? I look at tax as an investment in this country, and I'd like to see every cent of it being spent wisely.

[Colza]

It depends on what you think wise spending is. I am quite keen on healthcare and education personally.

[fr3ek]

Just saw the news... threats of Tiwai Smelter closing... not a good idea. Be prepared for the sphincter of NZ to drop off if that happens.

[Haydz]

Originally Posted by David R

Politicians wages should be fixed and should only increase at the rate of inflation

Why should their wages increase with inflation when ours don't?

[SLOTEG]

Originally Posted by fr3ek

Just saw the news... threats of Tiwai Smelter closing... not a good idea. Be prepared for the sphincter of NZ to drop off if that happens.

yeah and more big businesses deciding that the bullshit taxes we are bringing in are just not worth it and taking their factories overseas