4-1 header power loss = bullshit IMO

[try_again_from_a_roll]

b16a3 with simota intake, 4-1 dc sports with modified collector and custom 2.5' exhaust thanks to luke aka b16a2. i noticed a definate increase in power out of vtec, as well as a lot more top end. the old "4-1" making less torque down low is a load of shit, if anythin power down low response was improved, but this may well be because of the decent exhaust flow, and vtec is designed for high rpm power so might as well make the use of it. IMO this has been proven debateable, and on a torqueless 1600.

[Horny_Devil]

do u have dyno proof to back this up? is the the good old butt dyno been draged out of the shed for this test

remember your mind can play tricks on u

[[QUIKdc2]]

Ive had both and Im 4-1 for life!

[4age20v]

this is interesting.

what kind of 4-1 did you have on the car before ?

what was the size of the collector on the old one ?

[DURTYEF3]

Good old butt dyno aye.

[Coupe-R]

it all depends on header design really.

I would just get the header for a car that has prooven power gains over others, hytech, SMSP others etc

[Deanis]

Originally Posted by try_again_from_a_roll

the old "4-1" making less torque down low is a load of shit.

REALLY? cause ive done it twice on 2 different cars and lost power down low.

infact a stock cast manifold makes more down low power than my pro 1 headers.

but i bet a million bucks they still make the car faster at the drags.

there are too many factors to just state that because its 4-1 it doesnt make power down low but the general rule of thumb for almost every header except for yours has lost power down low.

you are lucky!

[Deanis]

and now i read you post again and you changed 2 things at once and commented that it was all the work of the headers.

i think getting rid of your shit stock exhaust has picked up your bottom end there mate.

please change the title of your thread

[Horny_Devil]

owned by the ginge

[Pommy]

pwned, butt dyno ftl!

[dazznz]

I call bullshit. I've had mugen 4>1's, Mugen 4>2>1's and Hytech all dyno'd on the same dyno within hours of each other. Mugen 4>1's lost torque down low but gained top end over the 4>2>1's and they 4>2>1's gained low end torque. The Hytech however did very well all the way through. I bet the extra noise from the new exhaust is making the butt dyno feel like it has more grunt.

[Dionysus]

Ah tis the like the golf club debate, big flappy game improvement irons vs itty bitty small blades. People talk about feel, but if you block their ears, they feel very similar.

Same with cars, without dyno proof it's worthless...

[Lith]

Originally Posted by try_again_from_a_roll

as well as a lot more top end. the old "4-1" making less torque down low is a load of shit, if anythin power down low response was improved, but this may well be because of the decent exhaust flow, and vtec is designed for high rpm power so might as well make the use of it. IMO this has been proven debateable, and on a torqueless 1600.

Wow you have proclaimed you have proved decades of design, testing and results wrong after doing a couple of bolton changes and going out for a VTEC?

I have seen it tested myself more than once and the best and most obvious example was one of my mates who very systematically and subtley modified his ITR using mostly OEM parts - he ran it on the dyno at each stage and proved two memorable things for me:

1) Short ram intake on an ITR loses you power, everywhere over the stock ITR intake setup
2) Changing from 96 spec 4>2>1 header for 98 Spec 4>1 header loses you a bit of torque down low but are good for a little more power up top. The losses and gains are minimal on both sides, but nonetheless are still there.

[tianporn]

Originally Posted by Lith

Wow you have proclaimed you have proved decades of design, testing and results wrong after doing a couple of bolton changes and going out for a VTEC?

I have seen it tested myself more than once and the best and most obvious example was one of my mates who very systematically and subtley modified his ITR using mostly OEM parts - he ran it on the dyno at each stage and proved two memorable things for me:

1) Short ram intake on an ITR loses you power, everywhere over the stock ITR intake setup
2) Changing from 96 spec 4>2>1 header for 98 Spec 4>1 header loses you a bit of torque down low but are good for a little more power up top. The losses and gains are minimal on both sides, but nonetheless are still there.

Here you have highlighted the importance of tuning after you have made any mod to your car.

[Lith]

Most definitely, have been a huge fan of tuning for a lonnng time. I got my old Prelude dyno tuned way back in 2001/2002 with basic bolt ons and when told people about my results I was faced with quite a few BS calls for claiming a what is now unremarkable >140kw @ wheels - was quite possibly the first NA Honda on NZHondas to get over that mark, the only thing done was dyno tune.

The thing that partly set me off on doing that was the fact that it felt "funny" down low after putting my headers on and I put it on the dyno with an O2 sniffer and if I remember rightly it turned out it was running nastily lean in the low end and then rather rich in the top end. Glad I did it, and can't recommend dyno testing and tuning for anyone modifying their car - even lightly, its amazing how much better it can go after doing so and helps you spot any potential issues.

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

The Hytech however did very well all the way through

Yeap the hytec style seem to work the best through the entire rev range. We have a shipment of the small tube, big tube and K swap headers coming

[Klasse]

Do hytec style come in 4-1? or just 4-2-1? Im wondering how expensive 4-2-1s (toda hytec style etc) compare to cheaper trr/mugen 4-1s. Not worried bout how low etc just the power difference. Too many damn options!

[Klasse]

^^ sorry for stock b18cr (well other than a mugen intake)

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

the hytec design is 4-2-1 - it is not your "normal" 4-2-1 however - its what they call a tri y design. I think its fair to say that for the money they are by far the best option. Mugen are way more expensive - TRR aren't imported anymore, and they certainly make more power then Mugen, TRR are pretty much the same design as Mugen..

The hytec design also has awsome ground clearance - certainly better then 4-1 headers and only slightly lower then a "normal" 4-2-1.