Any one do BRE or equivalent obd0 PR3 chipping???

[ef_eg]

Yes you don't cut anything for OBD0, just add Datalogging to your BIN.

I would recommend a Moates cable set as I tried geniune nokia and copy cables without success. The pin-outs/colours often vary from what you find on the net and pgmfi.org with the cheap cables. Moates one worked staright away, no hassles.

[Coupe-R]

amen, and I bet the chipset in the nokia cable doesn't log to fast. Still will do the job if you get it figured out tho.

P.S

Then I just got a really really small drill bit and drilled out some holes in the solder for the legs of of the socket

my god thats dangerous work

Just use a solder sucker or some desolder braid from jaycar/dicksmith.
its really easy to use and sucks the solder off the pads.

I just solder in a 4 pin header to the board so the cable can be plugged in and out.

[bmgjet]

I found drilling it was easyer. The solder was pritty think could of just used a needle to push holes probly.

The drill bit was super small aswell anyway and was made for drilling circuit boards.

[Coupe-R]

no worries.

have a go with the solder braid sometime and you may reconsider which is easier.

you can fully take the solder out of any pad in a matter of seconds.

hold braid over the pad, put the solder iron on it and then it wicks the solder up into the braid leaving the pad clean.

Or buy a solder sucker which sucks the solder off the pad.

It's good to own both really, braid is good for removing small surface mount components like the P30 OBD1 ECU's etc.

$6.50 from jaycar, get the 1.5mm stuff

[VTAKYO]

God... drilling out solder? Fuck that is dodgy. Use a solder sucker, as you risk drilling too far and damaging the copper pads and channels; which would render your ECU useless. Got mine for about $10 from DSE.

[bmgjet]

Iv got a solder sucker but its really crap lol, Its like a turkey baser lol. Have to get some braid to try next time im doing desolder work.

[Coupe-R]

braid is GOOOOD

only the BEST solder suckers really work any good

[bmgjet]

Got my DKU-5 cable today, And tested it with a really long usb extention cable lol. Logging works even when its disabled but it only shows data for the TPS and the rest of the stuff is just jumping around crazily.

[bmgjet]

Just tried another cable on another ecu iv chipped and changed from auto. HL-2303 works also, Its on trademe as a "usb to serial (3.3V logic)" from the seller zeus_dong.

Just a bit of a mission connecting the pins but would be easy if you use a female serial connector on the ecu where i just used a jumper off a computer and cramed all the wires into that. then put if over the pin.

[ef_eg]

Are you still getting only partial values (ie only TPS)? I had that once, but forgot what the problem was. You need to be collecting all the values (especially AFR!).

[Coupe-R]

He doesn't have a chip running the new BRE datalogging code thats why.
Then he can use BRE to log, yes you need AFR logged too

DO you guys hook wideband AFR directly into a OBD0 ECU through the oxy sensor primary or secondary??

or do you not log AFR through the software at all>?

I log wideband AFR through pin D14 on OBD1 so all data is in one program.

[bmgjet]

I use a exhaust sniffer that goes on the end of my exhaust. Well its not mine its my mates lol, Sucks for revs below 3k but its ment to dyno use lol.


Still got the chip I got off you ef_eg and one thats ment to have datalogging but seems to have a really old version (has 2005 written on the lable) and the stock chip.

[Coupe-R]

Well its not mine its my mates lol, Sucks for revs below 3k but its ment to dyno use lol.

yeh most of them are crap, or not that accurate, even the ones many dyno shops use, cause they are old sensors and old technologuy. Or just old and thrashed to death

[bmgjet]

Better then nothing to do a check of your AFR after doing a lot of mods so you know how urgent a tune should be on your to do list.

Mine checked out averaging around 12.1 WOT.
So a bit rich, iv heard vtec hondas like more around the 12.7-13.2 range.

[ef_eg]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

He doesn't have a chip running the new BRE datalogging code thats why.
Then he can use BRE to log, yes you need AFR logged too

DO you guys hook wideband AFR directly into a OBD0 ECU through the oxy sensor primary or secondary??

or do you not log AFR through the software at all>?

I log wideband AFR through pin D14 on OBD1 so all data is in one program.

I knew I should have added datalogging to that chip! (wasn't sure if you needed it at the time).

Normally, the WB output get wired into the secondary O2 input on OBD0 and datalogged within BRE. This works out better than using the WB software's datalogging as it can easily relate the AFRs to the correct cells (also processing them statistically and allowing auto tune etc).

As for sniffers, I don't use one but screw in the WB oxy into the header and run open loop. Doesn't take long, and I think it is best to tune open loop anyway so the ECU cannot mess up your readings by compensating. Once tuned then put everything back and enable the O2s again (or stay open loop )

Edit: maybe you are running stock headers? so I am not sure if a WB into the primaries is a good idea. Maybe weld a bung at the collector instead?

[Coupe-R]

correct, I run a WB in the collector and you MUST TUNE WITH OPEN LOOP or else it will screw with everything.

Then enable o2 sensors afterwards or leave open loop as you said ef-eg

yeh I tune for 12.8:1 in N.A hondas, on the safe side.

Yes a wideband is better than no wideband at all, and all auto tune I have used has sucked compared to doing it your self. I can tune a car much quicker than using auto tuner.
I tried auto tuner many times when first starting out, and got to hate it!

[ef_eg]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

all auto tune I have used has sucked compared to doing it your self. I can tune a car much quicker than using auto tuner.
I tried auto tuner many times when first starting out, and got to hate it!

Yep, the realtime auto-tune in BRE sucks is not really any good.

I normally datalog for say 5-10mins of driving, trying to get AFRs in all cells then run the offline auto tune against the target AFRs you want. In BRE you can 'filter' the AFRs so that you only change cells that you know have had x number of samples. That way you ignore any rouge values that might mess up your map.

Do this a few times and your AFRs start looking better and better then you're basically done apart from fine tuning. Then visit the dyno shop to do your power runs, ignition timing, cam timing.

Its a good idea to keep your WB setup at the dyno to compare with the dyno shop's WB as there might be a big difference!

[Moclov]

A tip for removing the old chip is to add more solder to the pins until you've bridged all the pins on one side. On the top side of the PCB you use a screwdriver or something similar to get some leverage under the chip and try to lift it up. While you're doing that, heat the big pool of solder you made earlier until the whole thing is molten and all the pins on one side are loose. Leverage one side out, then repeat on the other side, then clean up all the excess solder you added with solder wick.

Short of doing it the proper way with a hot air rework station, that's how I would do it anyway

[Coupe-R]

Or just use solder wick on each pad and it wicks it right up without the risk of lifting pads or anything.
or use a solder sucker (a good one $25-$30) they work well.

Yep, the realtime auto-tune in BRE sucks is not really any good.

I normally datalog for say 5-10mins of driving, trying to get AFRs in all cells then run the offline auto tune against the target AFRs you want. In BRE you can 'filter' the AFRs so that you only change cells that you know have had x number of samples. That way you ignore any rouge values that might mess up your map.

Do this a few times and your AFRs start looking better and better then you're basically done apart from fine tuning. Then visit the dyno shop to do your power runs, ignition timing, cam timing.

Its a good idea to keep your WB setup at the dyno to compare with the dyno shop's WB as there might be a big difference!

Basically everything you said there is exactly what I do in crome.
Takes me about 3-4 drives to get each cam perfect using this method.
I do it 'offline' afterwards also, using the auto %age adjustment, but I filter out and smooth my own values if I know something is totally wrong, even crome gets the filtering wrong sometimes.

After that in graph view everything is looking quite smooth,
P.S when trying to hit all cells, use very smooth throttle transistions. Do not "stab" or "jerk" the gas pedal to hit cells otherwise the throttle enrichment will skew your AFR readings too much.

for the last columns 'full throttle' you can "stab" the gas in 3rd or 4th gear from very low rpm (say 1500) all the way to red line

[Moclov]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

Or just use solder wick on each pad and it wicks it right up without the risk of lifting pads or anything.
or use a solder sucker (a good one $25-$30) they work well.

Solder wick won't remove all the solder if the pin is still in the hole though. You'll be left with enough that if you try to yank it out anyway you'll do damage. It's much safer to pull the chip out while all the solder on all the pins is molten, and the only way to achieve that without a hot air rework station is to bridge all the pins together.

[bmgjet]

ways i have removed chips are,

Side cutters then desolder the pins left, (this has been the easyest way iv done it so far.)
hot air gun, (also was quite easy but scratched the board a bit trying to wedge the chip out)
solder wick, (was the hardest and took the longest time maby hard because my iron was a high W one)
PCB solder drill piece, (was the quickest and very easy but was quite risky to the traces.)

Ill try Moclov way next time.

[ef_eg]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

P.S when trying to hit all cells, use very smooth throttle transistions. Do not "stab" or "jerk" the gas pedal to hit cells otherwise the throttle enrichment will skew your AFR readings too much.

for the last columns 'full throttle' you can "stab" the gas in 3rd or 4th gear from very low rpm (say 1500) all the way to red line

Good Tip!

[bmgjet]

Iv been looking around the net and found a road dyno computer thing,

That ecu controll is open source Ill have a play around with it and add some of the same functions.

Doesnt look that hard, all its doing is working out the hp with car weight + gear and acceleration.

Just need to read into the conversions and install my old VB6 to edit ecu control.

Sleep time now.

[Coupe-R]

Yeh crome pro has dyno tools if you get the dealer version. I only have pro so never tried it.

Solder wick won't remove all the solder if the pin is still in the hole though. You'll be left with enough that if you try to yank it out anyway you'll do damage. It's much safer to pull the chip out while all the solder on all the pins is molten, and the only way to achieve that without a hot air rework station is to bridge all the pins together.

Solder wick, and/or solder sucker has worked everytime for me, you are right about the wick, you just have to be good at it Solder sucker works GREAT but its my mates so I have to use the slow solder wick way. Wick is great for removing other components especially SMD components.
P.S (Most OBD1 don't have a chip anyways just pads with solder on, so wick takes about half a second to remove the solder

Between myself and a mate we prob done 25 ECU's using solder sucker for ECU's with chips, and me using the wick most of the time for OBD1 cause its his solder sucker.

Use what ever way is quickest and safest for you, you don't want to be ripping chips out and lifting pads. Nor getting solder and shit everywhere all over other pads that are VERY close to the 28 pin pads

[bmgjet]

Im getting

Sanity Check failed!  Cui's Datalogger code NOT detected!  Please check Comm settings and Baudrate!
Port Successfully Closed!

with your chip Coupe-R are u sure that bre 2.2 beta has data logging on all its roms.

Ill try out some more baudrates to be 100% sure, What one do u recommend?


Heres my ecu case with the serial port on it. Had to silicon the port on because had no screw small enough for the plug to clear.