JTUNE - K20+K24 Engine build for Test Rabbit EP3

[Genkei]

secert cam timing . . . . .

it was good enough to win production class last season and make more power then ever, so i guess is good enough

the the big lobes make more power then the small lobe might aswell use the big right?

gonna do the final tune tommorrow night after work .... hopefully

K pro is average... if i knew i was going to have two build.. would of brought a M8 in the first place, instead of two computer now X_X



Think the header design would only work good for the k24 setup
K20 might need to change abit
Depends how u want the power band

[Stubs]

Is K-pro tricky to tune?? or would it be when you have things like aggressive cams, ITB's, Nitrous etc.

I remember seeing a while ago that it was quite tricky to find someone in NZ who could tune it right

[Coupe-R]

Never used Kpro before.

what don't you like about it jacky?

One thing that I can see is that updates cannot be made on the fly, i.e on the dyno won't you have to turn off the car->upload data. turn on car.

Other than that what features are missing that you need?

[Genkei]

is not hard to tune..

but to tune it properly will takes two days...
say ur tuning the cam angle

10 20 30 40 .. degree
at every cam angle u need to tune the car right

then u select the best power out of each angle for power or torque and then put it together as one whole map tell is at wat rpm to run wat angle

example

3000 rpm, cam at 10 degree it will make 60kw
but if its at 20 degree it will make 55

then

at 3300 rpm cam at degee it will make 61
but at 20 degree might make 68

Even Doug says it will take them 2 days at less
and 1000s of dyno run


But if u have a full on motor, the valvevale timing is better to be taken out and just run normal adjustable cam gears.. which is like 450 buks each for skunk . . . . .



naa lets not get into that why dont i like it, it just me... never like Hondata product, they are not bad, just a fact they never work on me


It just a reflash . . . .

But it is a good product

[Coupe-R]

yeh it is 'just a reflash' however that can be of benefit alot of times, speeds up tuning for me doing OBD1 cars

Mainly because other tuners will spend HOURS trying to get the aftermarket ecu to run the motor just like stock, part throttle, idle, intake temps and ect offsets and more (and usually not totally succeed)

however if the motor is a mild build, a reflash is great
Wow that Kpro stuff sounds like it takes BLOODY ages! I'm glad all I have to tune is 2 fuel maps and 2 igniton maps!

Glad you are maing progress, pretty flash making your own headers and testing etc

[Genkei]

if they can upload the data live it will be alot better

try to sit it at a rpm and tune it right is abit harder then the other full engine mangement ( doesnt upload fast enough ) have to dump the clutch on the roller so it starts again HAHAHAHHA

u have to do that too but at each cam angle !
I can tell u now.. most tuner will either hav a pre set Cam angle map to load in Or dont get touched at all. ( only works with the same cam ) also it doesnt mean it will work on all cars

or else will be 2grand just for dyno tuning
but if u do it zone by zone bit by bit
then u will get result like the Hondata EG race car !


hmm yea... well
sometime is hard to believe wat works and wat doesnt

Ive tried at less 8 different extractor on my b18c and guess wat the cheapest header made the most hp!
believe it or not

[Coupe-R]

and was that the xforce ones?

Hmm I will have to show you OBD1 tuning programmes sometime Jacky, SUPER fast upload, and real time uploading for tuning at a specific point on the dyno. Super fast datalogging etc. All while the car is running, don't have to shut off etc.
Only OBD0 and OBD1 though.

Does sound like the Kpro is not actually as nice to use as OBD1 software.

[Genkei]

on the dyno now...
running out of time . .. . gonna just do a quicky

[Lith]

Err, huh?

[Non Vtec]

I thought tuning K-Pro and especially K24 was pretty easy really. Forget about the varied cam advacne for most of the tune. You just set it to full advance for the first few runs fine tune the fuekl and ignition then drop the cam angle back 10degree at a time and paste the fuel and ignition maps over, takes about 2-3hrs to fully tune a car, I dont remember Doug taking 2days to tune my car and it seemed to go pretty well. although some fine tuning needs to be done on the road. Easiest way is to just try 2-3 different base maps find the one that makes the most power and then modify it to suit. Pretty easy really.
So how much power did it make Jackie??
Got to be able to beat Yonas down the 1/4 He is down to a 11.82 using a stock Euro K24 motor..

[Genkei]

sorry been really busy today.....

trying to get things done for everyone b4 track day

didnt get everything done in time
only thing was done was the extractor and exhaust, also the muffler i wanted had to go on a customer targa rally car, so picked up at xforce n1 and arc it on . . .

Extractor worked very well, it was just wat we were expectin, it moved the power band alot more earlier

Maximim gain was 25kw in some part of the mid range
but since is just doin abit of cricuit stuff, we moved the power band alot earlier, is now peakin at 7500 and limiter at 7800 thats around 177kw
( reving it right up is around 182kw at peak 8300 rpm )

Throttle or intake side of thing is restricting at 4900rpm area, didnt had enough time to finish off the tb, or it could be the cam not flowing enough ,well put it this way engine can still take alot more air

well we only took 2 hours or so ?
to tune all the cam timing , igntion, bbahbahba
is not 100% prefect but is good enough, driving around town down really get to use full throttle all the time, needed that quick respone at low throttle

Tried cranking the Vtec point right down..
even at 2000rpm ( which was so hard to load up on the dyno ) " just for testing "
The secondary lobe still made more power and torque then the primary lobe.. but it uses alot more fuel !


naa, the car is too heavy for that and i cant afford to flat shift these box, ill leave that for Tony/Andrew, might try it with the other car once this is over and done with, ( it will be forsale soon )

Next on the list will be some Custom cams, bigger tb, and hook the bottle up and see if u can blow it up

Ill have more detail of dyno runs later on
nothing fancy

[Genkei]

will try post up dyno run later if i have time

[Mr_hohoho]

yonas running with full slick too.

[Genkei]

upgraded TB is coming

also some JTUNE custom cam's !

[Genkei]

Ok update 16 /10 / 08


With the New throttle body upgrade

There wasnt heaps of power improvement,
Back to Back test on the dyno was something like 2 to 3kw gain ( without tuning, it didnt really put the tune out, due is tune on MAP Sensor

Anyway so now is meaning there is enough space for air to suck in and there is enough room for the exhaust to go out, so we are still back on the cam's

I think ill be doing cam upgrade next week and see how we get on

But while we are testing throttle bodies, we did some intake runner and filter testing

With the Open trumpet ( no filter ) it picked up 5kw+ at peak and 3kw along the whole power bend.
And with a certain lenght on the intake pipe ( from throttle body to filter )
We managed to pick up more power in the mid range, the biggest different was close to 10kw at a certain spot on the rpm

All testing and dyno runs are without tuning . . . Il have some dyno graph put up soon

( also lookin for a stock K24 Euro for Power Run can do the person a deal )

[Genkei]

Here are some dyno runs from few months back

Stock ECU
Tune with K Pro
K Pro with custom Headers and Exhaust

Dyno Run and Tune is Sponsored by Speed Source

[Genkei]

STd TB Vs Upgrade TB - Untuned
As you can see, as it loads up from down low, with the upgrade throttle body it runs alot leaner, because we were only looking for power difference up top, we just did a quick back to back run to see if there is different

This will show you how big of a difference tuning can made, if the car is tuned right !

Also car is slightly out of tune because is not running the same petorl....


Dyno Run and Tune is Sponsored by Speed Source

[tec]

well done, the results speak for them self

[Genkei]

thanks dude

Im open for offer!
I will sell the car or the engine setup as is or with the cams upgrade

Need to carry on with the project, this doesnt have to be here with me


Or someone buy this engine and ill put a stock k24 in and see is it possible to take on 150shot of Nos with Stock internal

[Gudgen]

Originally Posted by Genkei

and see is it possible to take on 150shot of Nos with Stock internal

im sure it will.

[blizard]

The car drives nice and smooth, sounds cool too

[MrMiLk]

How big is the TB?? and wat cam u going to put on, the speedsource one u was
talking about?

[Genkei]

The throttle upgrade is bored differently for my intake setup

The cam is still under development with Kelford, they are sitting here at the shop but havent had time to get it fitted, we are going to upgrade the valve springs too even doh the std typeR springs can take on 8500rpm with these cam
Cant share the spec's yet still under testing, but we are lookin for good gain down low and hopefully squeeze another 10kw at 7000rpm if we could

Our target is 250whp NA


But openin is 70.5mm for all K Series Tb upgrade

Some say is easy to do but after timing the main man doing it and making it prefect it take a day work to get it better thAn BETTER
Also the bolts at the Tb has been grinded down, in the pic it hasnt been polished up yet in the bore


Standard Tb vs Jtune



Upgrade TB