H22a/EG stock dyno result

[doo0T!doo0T!]

I wasn't going to post this up but I've decided to man-up and see if anyone has any interesting comments.

I put the H22a EG on the Dyno today for a base power run to see how it's fairing before I do anything to it.

The current set up is running basically as a stock obd2 P5M H22a
All stock sensors, including EGR & IRV
Stock intake arm with simota pod filter on the end.
Stock P5M OBD2a ecu
Stock H22a headers and collector diameter but still has the stock EG5 zc/d16a exhaust. (it's quiet as)
83,000k's on engine.

Peak power at the treads was 100.6 wkw, (about 20kw less than I expected.)

The pull was made in 4th gear on the Hi-Velocity DynoDynamics dyno in Glenfield.



Unfortunately no torque data was available which is a shame as i would have liked to see the shape of the curve and see what sort of torque it's putting down.

I'm not too worried that it's a low reading, at the end of the day this is just a base number and every dyno is different.

You can see the vtec point and a sharp power gain directly after it but then it seems to hit a bit of a wall at 155km/h and I am guessing that is the skinny little EG5 exhaust restricting it.
Hard to say with out a corresponding torque curve.

Air/fuel ratio is typically rich and needs to be bought up around the 12.7 mark for a bit of gain.

What do you guys think is needed first?, a VAFC to lift that air/fuel ratio or should I ditch the exhaust? (The tuner thinks he can over write the eprom in the ecu if i get it socketed. He showed my the software and there is definately a capability to tune a P5 series ecu but I think a 2nd hand VAFC would be cheaper and I already have the loom for one wired into my ecu harness.)

I've been thinking of one of those 2.5" stainless steel straight through NZKW jobbies for $399. There's no way i could make one for that price but i will make my own headers using the top half of the stock headers chopped off before the 4-2 flange and I'll make a proper 4-1 collector and extend the primaries all the way to the collector. Either that or scam some cheap 2nd hand headers to save myself the trouble.

Any comments welcome. But if you give me shit for the low 100wkw reading you are a homo.

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

running a bit rich for sure.

Would expect to get around 120wkw with the exhaust freed up and a good tune

[Boostin It]

mike as a comparison, my bb6 made 121.4wkw @ beyond with IHE on stock tune, and same gearbox as you too so same ratio's etc.

[dazznz]

To be honest, the curve of the dyno is actually pritty good. Its very flat, with no real big lumps or dives in it which is good. You see alot of cars that have a huge jump at the vtec cross.....not really a good thing, a nice flat curve is good.

I would say that you should do the exhaust first, and then tune it. No point tuning it, and then having to retune it for the exhaust.

[Coupe-R]

The tuner thinks he can over write the eprom in the ecu if i get it socketed. He showed my the software and there is definitely a capability to tune a P5 series ecu but I think a 2nd hand VAFC would be cheaper and I already have the loom for one wired into my ecu harness.)

really your tuner, chips and tunes OBD2A in New Zealand. I never hear of this.
what software was it?

Same reason hondata is OBD1, and crome etc. Cause OBD2 is a bitch, and the chips are expensive.

OBD1 H22A ECU's cannot be chipped for crome or hondata i think. However they have the H22A programs to put on EG6 ecu's.

About the NZKW exhaust, i got one and it was made all wrong, flanges welded in the wrong places, the exhaust was NEVER going to fit any car with the B pipe facing the ground. Yes you could buy one but A LOT of cutting and welding to fix up the stupid welders errors would be in order. Also the muffler is terrible goes from 60mm pipe diametre down to about 30mm inside. Like its got a permanent silencer.

[dazznz]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

[

About the NZKW exhaust, i got one and it was made all wrong, flanges welded in the wrong places, the exhaust was NEVER going to fit any car with the B pipe facing the ground. Yes you could buy one but A LOT of cutting and welding to fix up the stupid welders errors would be in order. Also the muffler is terrible goes from 60mm pipe diametre down to about 30mm inside. Like its got a permanent silencer.

I actually got this exhaust for him. I dont no what the deal was with this one, someone really cocked up when they made it. However the guys at NZKW have sold a hell of alot of them for all sorts of makes and models, and they all seem to be fine. May just have been a faulty one.

[crx_bob]

Based on what you have there the exhaust would be my first choice as the biggest restriction.
Also having to retune after changing would be a waste

[Bananaman]

Glad you put it on the dyno as a starting point. Will be watching this space in antisipation of whats to come.

I vote exhaust first then tune. (sounds like the logical thing to do to me )

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by dazznz

I would say that you should do the exhaust first, and then tune it. No point tuning it, and then having to retune it for the exhaust.

Oh yeah good point. I could fit the exhaust, then do a run, do the tune, do another run all in the one hit and it would show the gains in between.

Originally Posted by Boostin It

mike as a comparison, my bb6 made 121.4wkw @ beyond with IHE on stock tune, and same gearbox as you too so same ratio's etc.

Yeah thats what i was expecting to see, around the 120wkw mark. But I dont have IHE just 1/2 of the I
I'm hoping it's a low reading dyno and not a sick H22a, 20wkw is a lot to make up with IHE!

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

really your tuner, chips and tunes OBD2A in New Zealand. I never hear of this.
what software was it?

Yeah thats what i thought.
No idea what the software is, some European software, he specalises in BMW and Euro tuning. He's pretty underground with most of his work coming in by referal.
He took the ECU out and checked the code on the side with his software and is adament that he could tune it.

He's pretty interested in taking a look at my Hondata when it gets here and is interested in learning. (Would be handy having an Auckland based tuning facility and tuner who specalises in Hondata so I'm doing my best to get him hooked)
He's currently an Autronic agent and spend most his time re-chipping BMW's and has just recently chipped an M3 CSL to make an extra 30wkw as if there wasn't enough already.

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

About the NZKW exhaust, i got one and it was made all wrong, flanges welded in the wrong places, the exhaust was NEVER going to fit any car with the B pipe facing the ground. Yes you could buy one but A LOT of cutting and welding to fix up the stupid welders errors would be in order. Also the muffler is terrible goes from 60mm pipe diametre down to about 30mm inside. Like its got a permanent silencer.

Whoa 8O Cheers for the heads up, sounds like the shitty OBX headers i once imported. I had to get them cut up and re-done with new proper flowing merges on the collector (I dont have a TIG-welder). They were great after that.
I'll definately look before I buy thats for sure.

[dazznz]

There is an auckland based hondata tuner. Andrew at rallyas. However i learnt my lesson with him and i would never recomend him. Plus you have the likes of beyond etc who can tune them.

[Pommy]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Oh yeah good point. I could fit the exhaust, then do a run, do the tune, do another run all in the one hit and it would show the gains in between.

Best idea right there, the figures low because of the exhaust, im sure of that. arent stock prelude exhausts atleast 2 inch? the stock eg exhausts are tiny so restriction would be the main issue, just prepare for alot of noise once you open it up unless you spend big bucks on a quiet muffler!

i reckan try to sort the intake before the dyno run after fitment of exhaust too, a metal intake arm and cold air box may help a fair bit

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by dazznz

There is an auckland based hondata tuner. Andrew at rallyas. However i learnt my lesson with him and i would never recomend him. Plus you have the likes of beyond etc who can tune them.

Andrew has no facilities so you have to pay for his time plus dyno hire and he wont tune for boost.
Gavin's shop is solely a tuning shop with two fully sound-proofed dyno booths. It's pretty flash and clinically clean.

Dont get me started on Beyond. I was just another mug walking in the door to them.
I just found out last night when i was removing my turbolink loom from the CRX that they had unplugged and bypassed my boost cut defender when they installed the Cam FC.
Why? The CAMFC doesn't even use a MAP signal. :!:
The whole time they told me my MSD was causing a massive missfire it was just boost cutting.
They also told me my link was fucked and sold me a CamFC and big injectors when there was nothing wrong with it and it was their faulty hand controller.
The whole exercise has cost me nearly $2200 and all I got was a shitty 122wkw run and probably drasticlly shortend the life of my engine. Boooooo!

Anyway /offtopic this threads about the EG.

Originally Posted by Pommy

i reckan try to sort the intake before the dyno run after fitment of exhaust too, a metal intake arm and cold air box may help a fair bit

Good idea, it's actually got a semi-cold air box on it already. It was fitted by the original owner when it had a ZC in it.

[OhSoSlow]

Get a rota!

[CamB]

Hmmm, 100 is a bit low. Do you know what RPM the hp peak is (looked at my spreadsheet - probably +/-7000rpm)? I'm running S pistons/cams/intake/random headers/2.5" exhaust but a quietish muffler and had 139wkw on TrickyTune's Dynapack. Oh well, you can't compare dynos so not sure that helps you much.

In any case, I reckon you are spot on with expecting around 120wkw (maybe a bit more).

How much was the dyno run? I'm keen to get another soon since I'm putting on a bored TB and matched IM. I'd be even keener if I can find someone who'd let me do a before and after on the TB/IM, but that'll never happen.

[Coupe-R]

Whoa Cheers for the heads up, sounds like the shitty OBX headers i once imported. I had to get them cut up and re-done with new proper flowing merges on the collector (I dont have a TIG-welder). They were great after that.
I'll definately look before I buy thats for sure.

yeh most of their stuff is great, it jus depends who they import them from. Maybe the EG9 system I got was made at XSPower factory (looked like it to me)
They always stuff manifolds up.

It is possible to chip and tune OBD2A as far as I know. Just not many do it.
If you find anymore out flick me a PM

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by OhSoSlow

Get a rota!

Ha ha I wondered how long before you found this. I just couldn't help myself I had too much to think about.

Originally Posted by CamB

Hmmm, 100 is a bit low. Do you know what RPM the hp peak is (looked at my spreadsheet - probably +/-7000rpm)? I'm running S pistons/cams/intake/random headers/2.5" exhaust but a quietish muffler and had 139wkw on TrickyTune's Dynapack. Oh well, you can't compare dynos so not sure that helps you much.

In any case, I reckon you are spot on with expecting around 120wkw (maybe a bit more).

How much was the dyno run? I'm keen to get another soon since I'm putting on a bored TB and matched IM. I'd be even keener if I can find someone who'd let me do a before and after on the TB/IM, but that'll never happen.

He didn't bother taking it to the revlimiter as the power was dropping off and I know by the speedo it hits rev cut at pretty much bang on 160 in 3rd and I think the rev-cut is 8000 going by what it shows on the tacho. (dont ask me how I know this, maybe I have my own private road)

i think Dynapacks tend to read higher as there is no tyre friction, wheel inertia etc, remeber how high the gizzmo one used to read man it made everyone feel like a champion
But yeah like you said who cares, it's a reference and if you stick to the same dyno through your mods you should get a good indication of how much difference your mods made.

He charges $70 + gst for a power and air/fuel run, meh thats only a tank of gas.
You could buy two runs, do one, go home and fit your TB and manifold and then come back and do the next one.


**edit, ha ha I just looked at my print out again, my speedo must be way out. 160 in 3rd

[BTLF3D]

pretty sure that dyno reads pretty low, bazda told me that one of his mates got 190wkw (something around there) but does a 12.6 @ 186k, pretty high for 190wkw... i would get a run on a different dyno just to make sure?

[M3_Power]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

He's currently an Autronic agent and spend most his time re-chipping BMW's and has just recently chipped an M3 CSL to make an extra 30wkw as if there wasn't enough already.

Highly doubtful with just a remap .... He's talking out of his ass ...

Thorney Motorsports in the UK is the foremost tunner for the CSL and they only just recently managed to get 390hp out of their demo car and that was with new cams, new cats, new mid pipe, new muffler ... it did outdrag (quite significantly) the new 997 GT3 and the 360CS to V-Max though at a recent event ....

sorry for the off topic post ...

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by M3_Power

Highly doubtful with just a remap .... He's talking out of his ass ...

Thorney Motorsports in the UK is the foremost tunner for the CSL and they only just recently managed to get 390hp out of their demo car and that was with new cams, new cats, new mid pipe, new muffler ... it did outdrag (quite significantly) the new 997 GT3 and the 360CS to V-Max though at a recent event ....

sorry for the off topic post ...

All good PM'd

[CamB]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

**edit, ha ha I just looked at my print out again, my speedo must be way out. 160 in 3rd

And I had another look at my spreadsheet - I dunno what I looked at but it was wrong when I posted before ops:. I reckon 160kph in 4th with 205/50R15 is ~6400rpm - I had a google and factory peak hp is 6800 (more like 170kph if you have 205/50s). So it could be the exhaust?

It also suggests your vtec is coming in about 4800rpm/118kph, which sounds about right.

My speedo and rev counter are both out - about 10% optimistic in my case.

I might get mine run on the dyno.

[Naturally Aspirated]

Oooh... im going to get mine dynoed as soon as its done...

Is exactly the same set-up as yours..

[b16a2]

my accord was similar, had a nice pull around 5600-6400 and you think man this thing is really gna haul ass soon and then it just dies
h22a are really suffocated from factory, but also undercammed, so really there is not that much point having them breath without better cam
ihe + cams and h22a start making power of what a 2.2 really should.
although ihe on a stock motor will alwasys show gains

[sirwags_np]

as a comparison, i got 96.1 wkw in second gear(slipping auto) with only i/h/e on my h22a.

i have now replaced the auto with a low k's sedan auto(manual has to wait) and the before and after is amazing.

i will be going on the same rolling dyno in a few weeks to get a new reading, and if the bum dyno is correct i should be over 100wkw easily

[CamB]

Originally Posted by b16a2

my accord was similar, had a nice pull around 5600-6400 and you think man this thing is really gna haul ass soon and then it just dies
h22a are really suffocated from factory, but also undercammed, so really there is not that much point having them breath without better cam
ihe + cams and h22a start making power of what a 2.2 really should.
although ihe on a stock motor will alwasys show gains

FWIW the s-cams and pistons I've got aren't changing things a hell of a lot. Feels real perky for an extra few hundred revs only - it's not like it screams out to mega revs (mine's limited at 7600 - apparently the stock valvetrain is unhappy past this - but there's really no point in going that high).

Mine does seem to have heaps of grunt in the midrange though, so its possible the cams are timed for torque not power (adjustable gears). I didn't get them fiddled with when I had it dynoed - I just had the previous owner's tune checked, etc.

Gotta say - I reckon 100ish hp per litre (for mine) is mint. My 8 valve 2 litre BMW revs to maybe 6500 and makes 130hp

[Bazda]

ok, your car has more power than 100kw TRUST ME.
This dyno has read low on the car I work on which is a 4agte trueno and it only puts out 196kw on this dyno but managed a 12.6@186 with a 2.1s 60ft.
Compared to my car I would say it has 240kw easy, as i had 200kw on 8psi on another dyno and his car eats my car if i run 8psi and he runs his 25psi with the "same" apparant power haha.
I would def say this dyno reads about 20% lower than say torque performance and tricky tunes hub dyno.