MAKE YOUR OWN QUADS.

Deanis · 21st September 2006, 07:04 PM

MAKE YOUR OWN QUAD THROTTLE INTAKE MANIFOLD.
The base for the intake is some 45mm Toyota quad throttles from a black top 20v that I got for $200 from a guy on toy speed and a b16a1 intake manifold that I got for free from revlimit. The b16a injector holes were filled with weld (RED CIRCLES) and the manifold was machined down to a flat plate that bolted onto the engine with the hot water pipes left sticking out. The hot water pipes were modified so the hoses could be put on with clearance for the throttle position sensor. 3 steel inserts were put into the plate between the intake runners so the Toyota quad throttles could be bolted onto it. (BLUE CIRCLES) Ideally there would be 5 inserts, an extra 2 on the outsides of 1 and 4 intake runners but there isn’t room and 3 still has enough strength.

The Toyota quad throttles bolt onto a Toyota intake manifold that came complete with all the injectors, fuel rail and vacuum manifold. I decided to use this as it would save me time and money in the long run. The Toyota manifold was trimmed down so that all the bolt holes around the outside were removed and then 3 new ones were drilled in between the intake runners so this could be bolted to the Honda plate. (BLUE CIRCLES) The Toyota map sensor lines on the back of the manifold were welded up so this would not cause a vacuum leak. (RED CIRCLES) Two holes were made for the studs from the head, these don’t have nuts (YELLOW CIRCLES) and a bigger hole was made in the center so this stud could have a nut fitted on it (GREEN CIRCLE) so now there are only 8 nuts that hold the Honda plate on instead of 10. The vacuum manifold on the top of the Toyota manifold has lots of hoses for thing like vacuum brakes and other stuff. Most of it was in the wrong place or not needed so I decided to remake the whole thing with a thick ally plate and 4 brass connectors for the brakes, pcv valve, map sensor and fuel reg. A small notch was taken out from the inside of the vacuum manifold so instead of the vacuum ports going from 4-2-1 it now goes from 4-1. Pull one apart and you will know what I am on about. The Toyota manifold was then bolted to the Honda plate. The intake runners almost line up perfectly but the Toyota ones are almost half the size of the Honda ones. Mr Toyota left loads of cast aluminium around them though and this didn’t last long against my die grinder and sanding disc leaving a nicely ported intake and a smooth transition from 45mm quad throttle to Honda intake manifold.

You can see on this picture that the throttle bodys don’t quite match the Toyota intake manifold. My die grinder was too short to fix this but I would recommend it for a bit better flow.
The 45mm quads were bolted on with just a slight modification to the position of the throttle cable holder to allow the Honda throttle cable to be used. The 45mm quad throttles have a 50mm opening on the end which is a pain in the arse because most of the cool trumpets are made for 48mm carbs. The only options I had were some 50mm ones from a guy on trademe which looked a bit home made for $200 or some 50mm TWM ones that looked very nice for $300. I decided to go with the TWM ones but im still not impressed that I had to spend half the budget of the manifold on the trumpets and even they had to have the bolt holes modified to fit. The Toyota throttle position sensor is the same internally as a Honda one so it was wired in without hassle.

DYNO TESTING INTAKE MANIFOLDS
The old intake was a b16a2 manifold with a 63.5mm throttle body and a hondata heat shield. This was connected to a simota intake pipe and pod filter inside a cold air box. The first dyno tune with the old intake showed 140 kw with a massive 25kw gain from 5500rpm through to 7500rpm and at least 15kw every where else. The new hondata was doing its job nicely. The power flattened off at 7500rpm at 140kw but held that power right through to 8600rpm giving me a fat power band right up high and in the sweet spot for drag racing.

Over night the quad throttles were installed and the dyno was booked for the same time the next day to give as close as possible temperature and weather conditions. The temperature turned out to be exactly the same on both days at 21 degrees and the humidity dropped from 75% to 73%.

This set-up was then tuned up on the dyno the next day with the final power run at 150kw, 200 horse at the wheels. An increase of 10kw. All the power increase is between 7500rpm and 8600rpm with a slight loss of 3kw between 7000 and 7500rpm. Surprisingly the low down power did not suffer at all. A quick measure up next to some $2500 TWM throttles shows the entire length of the runners comes in at 20mm shorter. This explains the really high rpm power increase due to the shortness of the runners. Evan from speed factor recommended they be made shorter than the TWM ones to compensate for the lack in size, 50mm compared to 45mm but it looks like I went too short. I have some 20mm spacers to put on next time I am on the dyno so I can hopefully bring the power band down a bit nearer to the TWM power band which usually shows an increase starting at 6500rpm with max increase at 7500-8000rpm and tapering off toward 9000 rpm. This set-up was dynoed in my civic without a cold air box but the bonnet was open on the dyno. Heavy 17 inch rims were also used (18kg including tyre, my drag wheels are 13kg). Hopefully the new exhaust and some lighter wheels will show a bigger number when I head back to the dyno for a final tune.

I made a custom air box at work with 2mm ally plate. It is bolted hard up against the fire wall and extends to the left and right as far as it can before hitting stuff. This was a recommendation from Lin at speed factor who said if its too small I will start loosing power again so make it as big as possible. The side of the box closest to the motor was made 20mm smaller on all sides and has a canvas joiner allowing the trumpets to move up and down with the engine while the box stays solid on the car. It will eventually extend out through the bonnet into a WRX style scoop with a flat panel filter in there somewhere.

Team Type R · 21st September 2006, 07:19 PM

top write-up, may give something like this a go in teh summer

hontegra · 21st September 2006, 08:22 PM

Great write up, i would so do this if i was staying NA

Frost · 21st September 2006, 09:39 PM

Gotta jump on the band wagon for this one! Great write man!!

K_ma23 · 21st September 2006, 10:10 PM

excellent write up! :thumbsup:
beautiful job!

Genkei · 21st September 2006, 11:48 PM

Yahhh

Genkei · 21st September 2006, 11:53 PM

btw

do u run a gasket between the Honda Plate and the Toyota PLate?
thats pretty good not need much weldin

Oh man u r so much ahead . .
mine is still a Plate and 4tb in pieces

ops:

White-R · 22nd September 2006, 01:46 AM

How about making some for me? :wink:

Deanis · 22nd September 2006, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genkei

btw

do u run a gasket between the Honda Plate and the Toyota PLate?
thats pretty good not need much weldin

na i just sealed it with goo. its very flat and it seals up good. the plan was to weld as little as possible cause i dont have a welder and have to pay for that. keeps costs down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White-R

How about making some for me? :wink:

got no time sorry, they take ages.

Coupe-R · 22nd September 2006, 09:29 AM

Bet they sound great.
I remember andrew (revlimit) was making over 150Wkw with an old hondata computer crane stage 2 cams wisco 12:2 pistons etc etc. Using b16a manafold. Maybe dyno differences?

Deanis · 22nd September 2006, 02:13 PM

our motors are almost the same except he has a type r head and a better intake manifold. he built my motor just after his. the type r head made about 9kw more all through the rev range.

NAspirated · 22nd September 2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genkei

btw

do u run a gasket between the Honda Plate and the Toyota PLate?
thats pretty good not need much weldin

na i just sealed it with goo. its very flat and it seals up good. the plan was to weld as little as possible cause i dont have a welder and have to pay for that. keeps costs down.

you try and weld the bullshit Aluminium the Japs use and the best thing youll get is a very warped set of throttles. worst, youll blow holes through them.

aluminium needs to be brand new or very thick for it to weld properly.

personally i would have used some metal retaining compound rather than "goo" to seal it. you might find that with some decent engine vibration youll get vac leaks.

i like the airbox, good job on that. the throttles themselves look a bit "homemade" for my taste if you get what i mean, but they seem to work well and thats all that matters. :thumbsup:

Genkei · 22nd September 2006, 06:22 PM

have u made ur set yet?

i have see few diferent sets
custom ones
they are all welded

went i saw these im like err? gasket? is 3 both strong enough to stop it leaking.?

looks readlly tidy

95ITR · 22nd September 2006, 06:46 PM

i want some someone make me some cant be bothered myself

Genkei · 22nd September 2006, 06:58 PM

$1200 can make u a set wahahaaahaha

is not about $$
is about time and effort makin ur own

Coupe-R · 23rd September 2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

our motors are almost the same except he has a type r head and a better intake manifold. he built my motor just after his. the type r head made about 9kw more all through the rev range.

yeh talked to him yesterday and he said he had head porting differences
he said u using the toyota TPS so bad below 20%

wlda been great if you could find a way to use the honda one aye?

95ITR · 23rd September 2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genkei

$1200 can make u a set wahahaaahaha

is not about $$
is about time and effort makin ur own

are you offering

Genkei · 23rd September 2006, 03:37 PM

u really want to pay that much for it?

deanis i think u have a customer

i havent make mine yet
still thinkin which is the best way to do it

but this sets looks the easiest so far

very impressive

95ITR · 23rd September 2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genkei

u really want to pay that much for it?

deanis i think u have a customer

i havent make mine yet
still thinkin which is the best way to do it

but this sets looks the easiest so far

very impressive

I would pay that much, providing they would work with aftermarket ecu support. Maybe we could sort out ITB to be made and then an aftermarket ECU program for them as a base at the same time

Genkei · 23rd September 2006, 04:36 PM

:twisted:

dont worry is just matter of getting the tb made up

have Data for Link, power fc and . . . . :twisted:

really interested to see the S300 . . .

coz it was one of the feature which was better then other mangement

been trying lots of computer and see which actually work the best

nzpunker · 17th October 2006, 10:27 PM

were the standerd toyota injectors big enogh for the honda and also what toyota manifold did you use, looks awsome man nice job i want some for my b16a

Team Type R · 17th October 2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

The factory Toyota 20v injectors were used as they are larger than the stock b16a ones. 240cc vs 295cc

nzpunker · 18th October 2006, 09:25 AM

oh ok man didnt spot that sweet

Deanis · 18th October 2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzpunker

what toyota manifold did you use

its all black top 20v stuff. you could use silver top for a b16a or low power b18c and they would probably work the same. there are a few small differences but the main one is 43mm throttles instead of 45mm.

Bananaman · 18th October 2006, 02:14 PM

Did you look at other Quad options? Or were these recommended?

My old man is making a set at the moment but using the CBRR600 Honda bike ones. The TPS on these quads is a standard Honda unit so plugs up fine to the standard loom etc.

Will get some pics when it's done to show the difference. Main things is the spacing between the throttle bodies. The motor bike ones are slightly longer than the honda intakes so the tube lengths on the outside two throttles need to be carefully made.

Top Job tho!!

21st September 2006, 07:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Deanis Senior Member 5,000rpm (VTEC Power!) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,228 Location: Waitakere	MAKE YOUR OWN QUADS. MAKE YOUR OWN QUAD THROTTLE INTAKE MANIFOLD. The base for the intake is some 45mm Toyota quad throttles from a black top 20v that I got for $200 from a guy on toy speed and a b16a1 intake manifold that I got for free from revlimit. The b16a injector holes were filled with weld (RED CIRCLES) and the manifold was machined down to a flat plate that bolted onto the engine with the hot water pipes left sticking out. The hot water pipes were modified so the hoses could be put on with clearance for the throttle position sensor. 3 steel inserts were put into the plate between the intake runners so the Toyota quad throttles could be bolted onto it. (BLUE CIRCLES) Ideally there would be 5 inserts, an extra 2 on the outsides of 1 and 4 intake runners but there isn’t room and 3 still has enough strength. The Toyota quad throttles bolt onto a Toyota intake manifold that came complete with all the injectors, fuel rail and vacuum manifold. I decided to use this as it would save me time and money in the long run. The Toyota manifold was trimmed down so that all the bolt holes around the outside were removed and then 3 new ones were drilled in between the intake runners so this could be bolted to the Honda plate. (BLUE CIRCLES) The Toyota map sensor lines on the back of the manifold were welded up so this would not cause a vacuum leak. (RED CIRCLES) Two holes were made for the studs from the head, these don’t have nuts (YELLOW CIRCLES) and a bigger hole was made in the center so this stud could have a nut fitted on it (GREEN CIRCLE) so now there are only 8 nuts that hold the Honda plate on instead of 10. The vacuum manifold on the top of the Toyota manifold has lots of hoses for thing like vacuum brakes and other stuff. Most of it was in the wrong place or not needed so I decided to remake the whole thing with a thick ally plate and 4 brass connectors for the brakes, pcv valve, map sensor and fuel reg. A small notch was taken out from the inside of the vacuum manifold so instead of the vacuum ports going from 4-2-1 it now goes from 4-1. Pull one apart and you will know what I am on about. The Toyota manifold was then bolted to the Honda plate. The intake runners almost line up perfectly but the Toyota ones are almost half the size of the Honda ones. Mr Toyota left loads of cast aluminium around them though and this didn’t last long against my die grinder and sanding disc leaving a nicely ported intake and a smooth transition from 45mm quad throttle to Honda intake manifold. You can see on this picture that the throttle bodys don’t quite match the Toyota intake manifold. My die grinder was too short to fix this but I would recommend it for a bit better flow. The 45mm quads were bolted on with just a slight modification to the position of the throttle cable holder to allow the Honda throttle cable to be used. The 45mm quad throttles have a 50mm opening on the end which is a pain in the arse because most of the cool trumpets are made for 48mm carbs. The only options I had were some 50mm ones from a guy on trademe which looked a bit home made for $200 or some 50mm TWM ones that looked very nice for $300. I decided to go with the TWM ones but im still not impressed that I had to spend half the budget of the manifold on the trumpets and even they had to have the bolt holes modified to fit. The Toyota throttle position sensor is the same internally as a Honda one so it was wired in without hassle. DYNO TESTING INTAKE MANIFOLDS The old intake was a b16a2 manifold with a 63.5mm throttle body and a hondata heat shield. This was connected to a simota intake pipe and pod filter inside a cold air box. The first dyno tune with the old intake showed 140 kw with a massive 25kw gain from 5500rpm through to 7500rpm and at least 15kw every where else. The new hondata was doing its job nicely. The power flattened off at 7500rpm at 140kw but held that power right through to 8600rpm giving me a fat power band right up high and in the sweet spot for drag racing. Over night the quad throttles were installed and the dyno was booked for the same time the next day to give as close as possible temperature and weather conditions. The temperature turned out to be exactly the same on both days at 21 degrees and the humidity dropped from 75% to 73%. This set-up was then tuned up on the dyno the next day with the final power run at 150kw, 200 horse at the wheels. An increase of 10kw. All the power increase is between 7500rpm and 8600rpm with a slight loss of 3kw between 7000 and 7500rpm. Surprisingly the low down power did not suffer at all. A quick measure up next to some $2500 TWM throttles shows the entire length of the runners comes in at 20mm shorter. This explains the really high rpm power increase due to the shortness of the runners. Evan from speed factor recommended they be made shorter than the TWM ones to compensate for the lack in size, 50mm compared to 45mm but it looks like I went too short. I have some 20mm spacers to put on next time I am on the dyno so I can hopefully bring the power band down a bit nearer to the TWM power band which usually shows an increase starting at 6500rpm with max increase at 7500-8000rpm and tapering off toward 9000 rpm. This set-up was dynoed in my civic without a cold air box but the bonnet was open on the dyno. Heavy 17 inch rims were also used (18kg including tyre, my drag wheels are 13kg). Hopefully the new exhaust and some lighter wheels will show a bigger number when I head back to the dyno for a final tune. I made a custom air box at work with 2mm ally plate. It is bolted hard up against the fire wall and extends to the left and right as far as it can before hitting stuff. This was a recommendation from Lin at speed factor who said if its too small I will start loosing power again so make it as big as possible. The side of the box closest to the motor was made 20mm smaller on all sides and has a canvas joiner allowing the trumpets to move up and down with the engine while the box stays solid on the car. It will eventually extend out through the bonnet into a WRX style scoop with a flat panel filter in there somewhere. __________________ 1985 CRX 12.73 @ 173KPH EF9 13.56 @ 162KPH NEVER BRING SHOW TO A GO FIGHT.

21st September 2006, 09:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Frost Senior Member 6,000rpm (Max Torque) Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,835 Location: Outside NZ: Australia	Gotta jump on the band wagon for this one! Great write man!! __________________ *EF H22A Race Car* ............ *Click Here for build thread* *EF H22A Road Car............ Click Here for build thread*

21st September 2006, 10:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
K_ma23 Senior Member 5,000rpm (VTEC Power!) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,035 Location: Hamilton	excellent write up! :thumbsup: beautiful job! __________________ Hondata s300 powered Accord Euro R at 8200rpm Its not how many horse power you have, its how powerful your horses are.

21st September 2006, 11:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	Yahhh __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

21st September 2006, 11:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	btw do u run a gasket between the Honda Plate and the Toyota PLate? thats pretty good not need much weldin Oh man u r so much ahead . . mine is still a Plate and 4tb in pieces ops: __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

21st September 2006, 07:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Team Type R Senior Member 4,000rpm (Taxi Drag) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 802	top write-up, may give something like this a go in teh summer

21st September 2006, 08:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
hontegra Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,785 Location: Hastings	Great write up, i would so do this if i was staying NA

22nd September 2006, 01:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
White-R Senior Member 3,000rpm (Grandma Drag) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 450 Location: Christchurch	How about making some for me? :wink:

22nd September 2006, 09:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
Coupe-R Senior Member 9,000rpm (S2000 Redline!) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,965 Location: Tauranga	Bet they sound great. I remember andrew (revlimit) was making over 150Wkw with an old hondata computer crane stage 2 cams wisco 12:2 pistons etc etc. Using b16a manafold. Maybe dyno differences?

22nd September 2006, 02:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Deanis Senior Member 5,000rpm (VTEC Power!) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,228 Location: Waitakere	our motors are almost the same except he has a type r head and a better intake manifold. he built my motor just after his. the type r head made about 9kw more all through the rev range. __________________ 1985 CRX 12.73 @ 173KPH EF9 13.56 @ 162KPH NEVER BRING SHOW TO A GO FIGHT.

22nd September 2006, 06:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	have u made ur set yet? i have see few diferent sets custom ones they are all welded went i saw these im like err? gasket? is 3 both strong enough to stop it leaking.? looks readlly tidy __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

22nd September 2006, 06:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
95ITR Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,601 Location: New Plymouth	i want some someone make me some cant be bothered myself __________________ #119 EG Civic

22nd September 2006, 06:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	$1200 can make u a set wahahaaahaha is not about $$ is about time and effort makin ur own __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

23rd September 2006, 03:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	u really want to pay that much for it? deanis i think u have a customer i havent make mine yet still thinkin which is the best way to do it but this sets looks the easiest so far very impressive __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

23rd September 2006, 04:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
Genkei Senior Member 7,000rpm (Peak Power) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,547 Location: Auckland	:twisted: dont worry is just matter of getting the tb made up have Data for Link, power fc and . . . . :twisted: really interested to see the S300 . . . coz it was one of the feature which was better then other mangement been trying lots of computer and see which actually work the best __________________ Check out http://monstereg6.jimdo.com/index.php

17th October 2006, 10:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
nzpunker Senior Member 700rpm (Idle) Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 133 Location: Dannevirke	were the standerd toyota injectors big enogh for the honda and also what toyota manifold did you use, looks awsome man nice job i want some for my b16a __________________ live fast die fun

18th October 2006, 09:25 AM	#23 (permalink)
nzpunker Senior Member 700rpm (Idle) Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 133 Location: Dannevirke	oh ok man didnt spot that sweet __________________ live fast die fun

18th October 2006, 02:14 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bananaman Senior Member 8,000rpm (B Series Redline!) Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,328 Location: Foxton Beach	Did you look at other Quad options? Or were these recommended? My old man is making a set at the moment but using the CBRR600 Honda bike ones. The TPS on these quads is a standard Honda unit so plugs up fine to the standard loom etc. Will get some pics when it's done to show the difference. Main things is the spacing between the throttle bodies. The motor bike ones are slightly longer than the honda intakes so the tube lengths on the outside two throttles need to be carefully made. Top Job tho!! __________________ It is better to have a Honda and no Money, than it is to have Money and no Honda.

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