thoughts/experiances on pioneer ts-sw841d subs

[badcf4]

Anywho, regarding an amp to do the duties for say a couple of 6 inch subs......Would I still want to bridge the channels for something of this nature or could I just run a two channel amp not bridged ?? UM.....and before you answer that would It make a difference if the HU I use had a seperate "subwoofer" output ?? as to the answer to that question ???

[fr3ek]

hopefully you have an answer soon. I think there may be something they are busy with. I'm keen to see what happens here for you.

Right, few options for the subs *if available in NZ* and amp. They're rated at about 150wrms, so easy power to get.

If you got the 4 ohm versions, you could run off a two channel as mentioned, although some of the amps potential is going to waste. With a four channel, you could bridge in to two channels, one per sub. Or go for a 2 ohm stable mono and parallel the subs.

If you got the 2 ohm versions, you could run one off each channel of a two channel amp, or the rear (or front) two channels of a four channel amp. Or go for a 1 ohm stable mono and parallel the subs.

All this assumes the 2 and 4 channel amps are 2 ohm stereo stable.

My choice would be the 2 ohm versions, running off two channels of a small four channel amp. Leave two channels spare for the fronts.

No difference if the headunit has sub out. It is always nicer though as you can adjust crossover points and slopes, flip the phase, and adjust the level from the drivers seat.

[badcf4]

and parallel the subs.

eh....wtf ???

[fr3ek]

Holla if you want the technical explanation.

[badcf4]

so its just a single 2ohm channel (be it bridged or not ?) running both 4ohm subs right ??

sorry its the tehnical aspect that gets me, I sucked doing electrical math at tech......Any other sub/amp combinations ive had in the past were just wired on up and she booms bro......

[fr3ek]

Yep, that single two ohm channel could be on a two or four channel amp or mono amp.

Like I have dual 4 ohm voice coil subs (so two sets of terminals per sub), which have the coils paralleled to present 2 ohms, then I parallel both of those together again to get a 1 ohm load drawing the most power from my amp.

Basically it is giving you more wiring flexibility. I could also series each subs coils for 8 ohms each, then parallel the two 8 ohms for a 4 ohm final load to put on to a bridged two channel amp.

When dealing with two conductors (sets of terminals) of equal resistance, paralleling halves the impediance (number of ohms), and going in series doubles the impediance.

[fr3ek]

Originally Posted by badcf4

sorry its the tehnical aspect that gets me, I sucked doing electrical math at tech......Any other sub/amp combinations ive had in the past were just wired on up and she booms bro......

But was your system running to it's full potential... These extra bits may take extra learning, but it is worth it when you can apply it to make your system better.

[badcf4]

no they wouldnt have been running to full potential.....hence my questioning

ok so i think im learning good here......

Now I am aware that everone says spend money on your fronts for the best sound etc etc.....

But truth be told any audiophiled car ive been in seems to sound horribly trebley.......I dont like intense front speaker noise, I just like to be able to hear the music coming from them and have a nice thump from the rear....

so Im thinking (your gonna curse me saying this) that id really just like to run my fronts off the HU as per normal stereo installation.

What are your thoughts on that ?

[fr3ek]

ZOMG may the audio gods send down one thousand lightening bolts on you. I don my audio angel halo

Nah, do what you like.

However, I suggest the "horrible" treble from the "audiophile" setups is more do to with the owners setup preference than anything else.

The most audiophile car I have listened to is Chris' GT-R from Pauls. A few people here, grandell, SLOTEG, VTAKYO (didn't see who else) have all listened to this. This is if I had to guess, in the $20k retail for gear, and it is by no means trebley. It is just as likely to blow your socks off with bass than linear clarity including treble. Its about being realistic. So if the song has big drums, there will be big bass. From the outside, it will even be more "bassy" than most street beaters you see around.

Amp your fronts for sure. Head units *generally* don't have the balls to get the woofers moving enough to generate midbass smack. You're more likely to get what you want from having an amp than not. Installation also factors here. You need to at least seal your doors, and for maximum affect Dynamat your doors also to create an enclosure suitable for generating midbass.

If you don't like huge treble, you can cut the tweeter level back with the crossover. If this still isn't enough, you can move the tweeters further from your ears so they aren't as loud. Kick panels are a good place for this. But then because the tweeters are low, the sound drags lower (but not all the way to the floor if you are crafty). It is a comprimise you need to make. But angled tweeters in the kicks will sound a lot higher than two way co-axials in the doors.

[badcf4]

I like the idea of just two ways in the doors

definatly no tweeters !!!!

Cool man, that concludes my audio lesson for tonight.....More questions tomorrow and hopefully Pauls get back to me but I think I have to send them another message regarding everything else now

Cheers man

[fr3ek]

Originally Posted by badcf4

I like the idea of just two ways in the doors

definatly no tweeters !!!!

Got contradiction?

On two levels:

Two-ways? One way is the woofer, what is the other way? Sure enough, it is a tweeter.

With two-way co-axials, you basically have no control over the tweeter. Meaning you won't be able to peg back the treble as you will want to.

It'd also be a shame to spend so much on the two subs, then let the rest of the system down with comparitively cheap co-axials. That said, DLS and Atomic make some nice looking co-axs. DLS are known for having laid back treble.

At least consider the component option, even if it is just for a short while. Shame you couldn't hear my system, it will be more the sound you are after.

To add in another corner of thought, a good set of components for the price of the subs and two-ways could give you enough bass, but also more midrange and overall clarity. It may be hard to understand if you've never had you pant legs moving about with bass from the doors, and all your mirrors vibrating, but it is possible.

Originally Posted by badcf4

Cool man, that concludes my audio lesson for tonight.....

Any time

[badcf4]

Well as I mentioned earlier I had seen a second hand one of the pioneers on trademe and since the auction closed without sale he offerd it to me very cheap......so Im going with a pair of pioneer 8" now !!!!!!
Pauls can do me them new for $179 which is a sweet price so ill grab the other one off them.then once all monies pending are paid to me Ill start figuring out which amp im going to use and HU also as Ive sold my DVD one.

Good times ahead

[fr3ek]

Only just saw this post...

$179 is a sweet price... RRP is $299! And good service Be sure to build some solid 18mm MDF baffles for them to work off. Maybe even some Dynamat to firm up the panels around the subs and improve their response.

If you're not planning on running the fronts off an amp, get either a four channel amp bridged to two, or a two ohm mono to run the subs off.

If you will run the fronts off an amp, there are various scenarios. Best option if you want to run one amp is to find a three or five channel with a two ohm stable sub channel.

[badcf4]

Be sure to build some solid 18mm MDF baffles for them to work off.

ok, why and what do you mean exactly ???? like 18mm spacers between the sub and the car ???

[fr3ek]

Yep, I think you've got it.

The factory speakers will likely be mounted on to the metal or plastic. Cut some 18mm MDF to fit over the metal or plastic with a hole the sub can fit through, and bolt it on with some solid M8 bolts in each corner.

You've seen how much the outside of a washing machine moves on spin cycle? Don't let your sub mounts be like that! Well not that bad, but you get the idea. It just means all the energy goes in to making the sub cone move rather than having the whole sub flap around on its mount.

Edit - like this:



That's the fronts of an S14 Silvia. There is a lot of room under the door card, so you'll see they have used two MDF pieces, with the top one used to angle the speaker.

Picture care of Pauls.

[badcf4]

hmmm, might have to get some material and make it look all nice.....I kind of suck at doing that kinda thing but im sure ill manage ......the only shit thing is on the drivers side The speaker is very close to the hole where the jack is....so if I make it too large it will interfere....

I guess I could do it with countersunk screws and make it round like the sub but thats gonna be a bitch to make, plus I also want to cover the subs with them grille thingys to stop pushchairs and kiddie toys stabbing holes in them.....

gah.......I need the subs here to play with !!

[fr3ek]

Lol. Take your time and you'll get it right.

[badcf4]

ok so just wangled my HU from mr H_D.......panisonic cq-c5400w...same as this but not this one.



mp3/wma, rear audio input ,mosfet yada yada yada

[fr3ek]

My quick Google reveals it has triple 5v RCA preout

Should have sub control also then.

[badcf4]

cool, am looking into one of theses for my amp MRP-F240

100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms

and the subs are.....nominal power 120watts and they are 4ohm....

should be a sweet as match yea ?

[fr3ek]

I had the Alpine MRP-F200 which was the model before back a while ago. Very clean sounding amps, nice build quality and small footprint. Easy enough to get a second one if you wish also.

Pic of guts:



More details

Nice little system you're building

[grandell]

buy my sub Greg

[badcf4]

hmmmmmmmmmmm na.......I have my plan set thanks

[badcf4]

the alpine amp I was looking at was a preloved one....I decided to spend an extra $50 and get a brand new amp in the form of...........Pioneer Gm-4300F



all my bits are on the way so the next update should be fucking up the installation

[badcf4]

Ok so I now have all the bits in my hot hands......after the weekend will be pics of the install (however dodgee that may be)

Thanks to pauls for the deal on the sub