H2H, H2b and H2d discussion

[chargedek]

I would recommend an eg6 or dc2 for around $5-6k the reason is a d powered version will cost you roughly half this but you need all the axels,mounts,gearbox,uprights and so on as you mentioned.By the time you put all these parts on the d car you will have spent about the same (if not more) and wasted the time plus no b motor to sell.
Go h2b and kick some ass!!

[Matty]

Um, Ian, you had an 8600rpm redline (unless you went KPro and didn't tell me) and a NZDM EK4 is 1131kg stock, heaviest B16-powered car evarrr - I have no idea how you dropped over 130kg. But then I kind of lost track of what you did so I could be wrong.

But IMHO...
- If I was doing it all over again and not doing much work I'd look at H2B.
- If I was straying into more than just I/H/E I'd go K.
- If I was b00sting it I'd go H2H for the longer ratios and the cheaper base engine if/when I blew it up.

[Bananaman]

My opinion is much the same as Matty, if i was to look into it again I would have started with the EG9 and done H2b. Since it wasn't B series to start with I am going H2h and looking to boost later on.

If I was rich and wanted to be REALLY different, I would say K

H2d just doesn't appeal to me. The machine work on the block to suit axles puts me off!.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Matty

Um, Ian, you had an 8600rpm redline (unless you went KPro and didn't tell me) and a NZDM EK4 is 1131kg stock, heaviest B16-powered car evarrr - I have no idea how you dropped over 130kg. But then I kind of lost track of what you did so I could be wrong.

He was probably talking about weight with him in it, remember Ian is so skinny that he has actually become anti-matter with a negitive mass.

[americ_ian]

... did you not see teh ~~ mark...

fuck this is turning into hater-tech

is an Ek heavy? no not realy.. is a prelude heavy yes, is an accord heavy yes, is a dodge ram heavy yes....


everything needs to be PRECISE



8600~9k.... zomg no way compared to a 7,200redline on an h22a
you mite see the point im trying to get across...

[nva2nd]

Originally Posted by americ_ian

... did you not see teh ~~ mark...

fuck this is turning into hater-tech

is an Ek heavy? no not realy.. is a prelude heavy yes, is an accord heavy yes, is a dodge ram heavy yes....


everything needs to be PRECISE



8600~9k.... zomg no way compared to a 7,200redline on an h22a
you mite see the point im trying to get across...

I get you Ian so still have faith

My car happy at 8,000+ now

Everything be covered, with what Matty said any way so this topic is abit blah blah blah now.

If was you personally I would go for a eg9, sure its 4door but then do h2b. You can pick the 4doors up for CRAZY cheap some time. So could look into that.

[Hayce]

Hahahah lucky someones there to catch the toys aye

[americ_ian]

shit day at work! dont ahve time for PC shit

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by nva2nd

If was you personally I would go for a eg9, sure its 4door but then do h2b. You can pick the 4doors up for CRAZY cheap some time. So could look into that.

Nah i know what i want , PM'd

[Matty]

Sorry I didn't realise Ian was on the rag this week.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Matty

Sorry I didn't realise Ian was on the rag this week.

Impossible, Ian with a tampon would be like Mary-Kate Ohlsen with a hay bale.
/end Ian getting shit.

Its only because i'm jealous you have an F20c powered monster and I dont.

[Hayce]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Impossible, Ian with a tampon would be like Mary-Kate Ohlsen with a hay bale.

haha nice

[Matty]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Its only because i'm jealous you have an F20c powered monster and I dont.

Ditto. Sigh...

[americ_ian]

lol fuckers

on a side note

i was going to post up some Pros and cons with the K vs h2b rather than "this is faster becoz _____ _____"

but the toyota needs some attention before the mosquitos gang up on me...

[d16a7]

Originally Posted by americ_ian

lol fuckers

on a side note

i was going to post up some Pros and cons with the K vs k2b rather than "this is faster becoz _____ _____"

but the toyota needs some attention before the mosquitos gang up on me...

well the cons of that is youd have 5 reverse and one forward gear...

[americ_ian]

oh FFS gtfo!


h2b
Pros:
The main advantage of an h22 is displacement. Big Bore load of torque, fair wack of power . with teh low cost of the H22a engines it gets to a point where H2Bs a lot more cost effective than building a B-series, especialy NA. IMO its a good alternative to the K swap

When comparing it to a K-swap, no need to worry about the shifter, you don't have to chop off engine mount cradels, spend loads on K mounts,youdon't have to buy that expensive K-pro. There is plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the H22as to make good reliable power as well as plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the B-series transmission. A great advantage! H2B kits may seem expensive at first, but when you compare all these other factors, it begins to seem like a bargain im my opinion

Engines are cheap $400-$500 for a complete blacktop long block 200hp
The Engine position sits Upright, exactly like a B series
Sump clearance is improved over convensional H swap
Depending on chassis (DC) it can fit without spacing the hood using the Evolution kit
You still use B series Clutch and clutch slave cylander
Wiring is truly a DIY job, using the B series Loom it plugs into the h22a ECU and starts right away
handling characteristics stay the same, and its good to have some torque going through that ITR lsd


Cons: The Mount kit that comes with the Evo kit, uses the very hardest rubber.. this makes everything vibrate in the car, coupled with no balance shaft belts, it makes a very interesting RAW ride
A single Pulley is needed, which means NO PS
The alternator idealy needs relocating, bit of a pain if you don't use strong enough steel, but there are Kits available in the US
Headers will need to be modified since the new angle of the motor puts stock h22a headers facing up towards the firewall

shaving off a tad of alloy from the back off the block, i didnt get this right, and found cv boots coming off, i didnt own the car long enuf to remedy this problem...

you will need a cert for your new motor/ gearbox adaption :-)
h22as have auto tensioners.. kane will recomend you replace with a manual one

h22as have no sump baffling... if you want to attack the corners id recommend one..

k20a swap

Pros 2.0liter high reving Ivtec goodness!! this is a seriously smooth torquey motor!
6speed... 4.7FD ...nuff said
220hp stock!
lighter than its h counterpart, maybe even B?
chain driven! no cambelt slips! makesure u replace the tensioner ever so often if raced alot
plenty of BOLT in kits available for most hondas, EF EG DC Ek etc etc
usualy fits in without spacing bonnent etc etc
plenty More potential with power!
K24 is its big block brother!
its the future of tuning hondas
Exhuast mounts at rear... no more under the sump/ground clearance issues
you get to put a 3" exhuast on your honda
you will own B series and most H's well maybe

Cons:
k20aR alloy sump... dont not take a liking to scraps/bumps anything, and hard to fix once cracked
just like the H, wheres the baffling in the sump! early K20a owners have thrown rods very quickly... baffle that mofo!
ALOT more expensive to replace than an H
ALOT more expensive to swap into a car, Wiring, shifters, ecu, exhuast (custom)
fuel lines
can run PS with some modification
radiator needs playing with
Ekk1 mounts mount K to far forward just like convention H swap
Just like the F20c, the K20a needs a Decent Header to retain power... if you run a shit header/exhuast expect 14.5s and sad faces all round
some say K-Pro is a must for the swap... id recomend it, but again the PRICE

you will have to swap your 5spd knob for a 6spd


thats all i can think of for now...

matty im sure will have more things to add.. or check out his build.. lurking around somewhere

[Matty]

Custom axles? They're DC5R inner, B outer! Easy to make! Erm, apparently. So I've heard. ops:

But a big con of the K-swap is availability. The US, Europe and Aussie are hoovering them up like they're made of cocaine. Of course this partly explains the ludicrous price for them.

A big pro of course as Ian mentioned is that they're the future for Honda tuning and the aftermarket is only getting bigger by the day. Just look at all the cars coming out of the factory with various K-series engines, they're everywhere. It's just a shame more of them aren't high-performance versions, but I'm sure the "lower spec" ones might take kindly to a little bit of b00st.

I guess it all comes down to what you want from your car. If you're building the ultimate FWD Honda or a killer allmotor drag car with all the trimmings then a K should definitely be up there on your list. If you're building something you just want to thrash the crap out of for fun and be able to find parts for easily then H2B is probably a better bet. Personally, I'm probably going B16 next, but that'll be a while away yet.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

^^ two good posts cheers au fullas Ko Teno Pai. :thumbsup:

[Coupe-R]

shaving off a tad of alloy from the back off the block, i didnt get this right, and found cv boots coming off, i didnt own the car long enuf to remedy this problem...

what hits if you don't do this, the passenger CV?
sucks about not being able to fit any PS at all?

I just had a read up on it, seems a little bit of work still. Do you have to use custom alternator brackets? Im guessing the stock H22A manifold sucks?
Can you use the Blue top 2.2 220ps motor?

whats this about chassis framerail modding (you have to bash and cut) to clear to clear alternator belt?

Also I am guessing you would want to remove balance shafts for simplicity.

Quite and interesting swap and I would do it over a B18CR swap if I had the chance again. Or maybe a F20C swap so its still 2000cc

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

Can you use the Blue top 2.2 220ps motor?

Is there a blue-top H22? Isn't the blue-top the F20b?

[[QUIKdc2]]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Is there a blue-top H22? Isn't the blue-top the F20b?

F22B???

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by [QUIKdc2

]F22B???

Sohc?

[Bananaman]

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

what hits if you don't do this, the passenger CV?
sucks about not being able to fit any PS at all?

I just had a read up on it, seems a little bit of work still. Do you have to use custom alternator brackets? Im guessing the stock H22A manifold sucks?
Can you use the Blue top 2.2 220ps motor?

whats this about chassis framerail modding (you have to bash and cut) to clear to clear alternator belt?

Also I am guessing you would want to remove balance shafts for simplicity.

Quite and interesting swap and I would do it over a B18CR swap if I had the chance again. Or maybe a F20C swap so its still 2000cc

H2H is HEAPS easier

My innovative mounts allow the PS to be retained not bashing of the chassis rail. And with the relocation bracket the alternator doesn't hit the radiator support.

Only modding I had to do to accomodate teh engine was cutting the drivers side engine mount off the chassis rail and mounting a new carrier suppied with the mount kit.

http://www.nzhondas.com/phpBB2/7-vtu...html?start=150

[americ_ian]

with the evo kit there is no bashng of the chassis rail wat so ever!


pasenger axle's CV just needs about 5mm taken off the back opf the block

[[QUIKdc2]]

Originally Posted by americ_ian

with the evo kit there is no bashng of the chassis rail wat so ever!


pasenger axle's CV just needs about 5mm taken off the back opf the block

Which really isn't that hard to is it??