Hub Centric rings, absolutely necessary?

[DrRubber]

alloy ones dont melt......and are strong...(dependant on thickness)

[DrRubber]

here you go...same discussion.......same argument.......

http://www.contour.org/archive/showf...=&fpart=1&vc=1

[americ_ian]

and? theres millions of threads with teh same arguement... wheel studs arnt gunna be stressed without the use of hub rings...

[DrRubber]

never said they would.

however interesting that the guy from the tire rack confirms that without them you can get vibrations due to not being hubcentric.

but hey what would he know right ?

[americ_ian]

errrm

[Snoozin]

LOL I used wobble bolts with rims that weren't hubcentric on my old Alfa, and in 6 years of driving never had a single problem with vibration, breaking wheel bolts (Euro stz... fuck I hate them) and that setup according to some people, was about as scarily dodgy as it got

[DC2r]

My Advans came with hub centric rings on them put wheels on not realising they were on and took for a drive, wobbled like fuck and felt like the wheels were gonna fall off, took them off and sweet as.

[Coupe-R]

This is a great thread.

and whats going to break first?

If anything in the wheel/hub department is going to break it will be the plastic ring. (that is IF THE WHEEL ACTUALLY WAS LOADED BY THE PLASTIC RING

Greg and Ian you are both correct.

Hub rings MAY take away shaking IF your wheels shake and somehow manage to have em bolted up crooked (even slightly)
No question this is the truth.

Now what Ian is saying, honestly you can't deny. The HUB centric rings whether alloy or plastic OFFER NO INCREASE IN STRENGTH.

As Ian said, the studs CLAMP the wheel to the hub, the car doesn't sit or rest on the studs when you let it off the hoist!

So you are both correct but talking about different things.

The weakest link would probably be peoples wheels before anything, hit a massive bump. Do your studs break? No but your wheel might crack/bend

[turbozxi]

Interesting my Black racing Pro N1's came with those plastic hubcentric rings i have managed to lose them over time I now have a nasty shake in my steering around 100kms. I didn't use to have it and the wheels have been balanced afew times. I thought it was the hubcentric spacers I put on.
But come to think of it I haven't got the hubcentric rings that came with the wheels on anymore, where can I buy some alloy hubcentric rings?

[d16a7]

through greg... or maybe http://www.sharrock-engineers.co.nz/products/ they in manukau industrial area..

[DrRubber]

best place to avoid me having to mark them up is Mag and tyre direct....tell them Greg sent ya.......$20 the set of four.......However check the availability of your sizeing in alloy....ie: mesure your wheel/hub first and ring them....you may have to get them made up....mike at Sharrocks isnt really into making up CBL's as such but any competant engineer can make them for you.They will cost more than $20 tho.

Honestly if its just for road use then plastic is fine.....they only melt on the track

And thanks Sam, I thought we meant two different things but couldnt seem to get the message across.

*edit* oh mag and tyre direct....5801371 (09) ask for jono

[sirwags_np]

in my 3 years of tyre/wheel experiance, i found that cbl rings were absolutely neccesary on anything euro, and some jappas responded to them but not all.

to anyone that doubts having your wheels hubcentric is neccessary just ask yourself, why when holden spent a billion dollars designing the ve commodore, did they use the hubcentric system?

if there was no need for wheels to be hubcentric, why do 90% of manufacturers make there cars with the system?

sure the plastic cbl rings used on some aftermarket wheels may not add any strength, and the alloy ones minimal strength gain, but for the vibrations they can cure, why not use them?

[Coupe-R]

when you don't have any vibration

i know usless post

[Andrew]

This stopped being a discussion two pages ago and turned into a Ian vs Greg spat.

I see both points, hub rings will stop vibration if the bore of the wheel doesnt fit on the hub properly. However, they wont provide much extra support for the reasons Ian stated - the wheel becomes part of the hub when the wheel nuts are torqued up anyway.

My EF2 had this problem but it would come and go. I would put this down to the wheels going in and out of sync with each other, rather then the wheel moving around on the hub and going in balance then out of balance again.

[b18c1]

just to back up an arguement, i went to greg with the mighty golf which was fitted with 17's, had a mean steering shake at motorway speeds, was damn anoying!! so i talked with greg and thought it was down to wheel balance, so we did hat and diddn't change a thing, but what we did notice was that there was no hubcentric rings when the mags were fitted, so we put it down to thoes and the crap tyres that were on them, going for the cheaper option i got the rings and fitted myself, next working day heading down the motorway, what a difference!!! virtualy no wheel shake! so next thing on the list was new shocks, fitted them, went back to greg for a wheel alignment and hey what do ya know... the shake was gone.
i think that yes they are needed if you get the shakes, they are cheap and is one snaps or melts its not going to break the bank to get 4new ones.
and i would also like to thank greg you know your stuff! and for helping me out as it was friggin anoying

[turbozxi]

I checked my car I am missing one HCR on the left rear would I still feel the shake through the steering?

[DrRubber]

^^^ not likely.

what speed are you getting it ?

[turbozxi]

Originally Posted by badcf4

^^^ not likely.

what speed are you getting it ?

Around 100kms? Really began to notice it when I put some 25mm spacers on they are hubcentric, you think attaching them to the wheels when getting the wheels balanced might help?

[sirwags_np]

i did try balancing my wheels with my 25mm spacers attached, and it didnt make any noticeable difference.

the only time it will make a difference is if there is dirt or anything stopping your spacer from sitting flush, or you have a poorly machined spacer

[DrRubber]

yea it shouldnt matter as the 25mm spacer should in theory be even in weight.

couldnt hurt to try tho.

the shake comes through the steering wheel tho yes ?? tell me more....is it when you accellerate ? does it stop if you take your foot off the gas ??? Its not when you brake is it ??.......

[turbozxi]

Originally Posted by badcf4

yea it shouldnt matter as the 25mm spacer should in theory be even in weight.

couldnt hurt to try tho.

the shake comes through the steering wheel tho yes ?? tell me more....is it when you accellerate ? does it stop if you take your foot off the gas ??? Its not when you brake is it ??.......

Yes its through the steering wheel happens when acclerating and just cruizing, I pumped up my tyres they were all down about 10psi . Then went out on a nice smooth piece of motorway (after papakura going towards the bombays, there was no shake there. It returned once back onto the older motorway further up.

I have pretty wide tyres on the front 235's, I think what happens is that if there any grooves in the road the tyres will start pulling that way which causes the shake. This sound likely?

[DrRubber]

hmmmm might pay to check out inner control arm bushes..........hard to be sure over the internet of anything !!!

[Erelyes]

Feel like this thread needs more discussion to it, dunno how I missed it last time.

I am firmly on the hubcentric side of the ring. Fitted 17s to my skyline a while ago. Had a bastard of a shake. Balanced them again. Still shaking. Then learnt about, and fitted, hubcentric rings. Problem solved.

Answer me this americ_ian, if hubcentric rings don't do anything - what DID fix my shaking? Or the shaking of numerous other people's cars? Seems like a gaping hole in the argument against hubcentric.

Originally Posted by americ_ian

$20 for 50c worth of alloy... come on... hello mr markup

So spacers machine themselves do they? By your logic, shouldn't a 5kg 15" rim cost about ten bucks brand new?

Originally Posted by americ_ian

It is true that the hub is bearing the load, but not at the machined center where it protrudes into the wheel. There is no way that portion of the hub could bear the load unless there was zero clearance between the hub and the wheel.

All the spacers I have had (couple sets of plastic ones over the years) have been a snug fit. Things don't always need to have zero clearance - you may be familiar with a technique called "press fit"? And then there's the whole "metal expands when warm" thing, too...

Originally Posted by BTLF3D

umm no they dont, all the wheels i have bought (rota's, buddyclubs, zoom, konig and also my bro's Works) all do not have the CBL rings included

Maybe because they're designed to fit 100s of different cars, with 20+ different centrebores, and they don't have a crystal ball to find out which particular car you're buying them for?

I don't know why there is such a ridiculous amount of anti-hubcentric posts in this thread. Seems to me that if Nissan (any almost every other car manufacter) didn't think hubcentric was a good idea, they wouldn't match them up all the time. Nissan could have made all their rims 66.1 CB and saved a bit on tooling? Instead of going smaller with their smaller cars.

In fact americ_ian could you show me one way in which the hubcentric rings might actually make wheel shudder/wobble worse?

Seems to me like "wasting money" on $20 rings that seem to fix a heap of people's wheel shudder issues, is a wise investment. Even should you have no discernable wheel shudder issues at present. Shit, compare the cost of the rings with how much it cost to build your car? Probably a drop in the water.

[StealthCF4]

But did your nissan use tapered wheel nuts??

I think alot of the discussion/arguement on this thread was about there being no need for the rings when using tapered nuts to align themselves, which in theory should do the trick.

However alot of people said that using the rings in conjunction with using tapered wheel nuts has fixed there wheel "shake/wobble".

My opinion is if you have any wheel shake or shudder, then try out the rings. If not then there is no need.

Then again if your wheels dont use tapered nuts, i would say that using the rings is almost essential.

[Erelyes]

Originally Posted by StealthCF4

But did your nissan use tapered wheel nuts??

Yep, used tapered wheel nuts.
The mags were also designed for tapered wheel nuts (as opposed to being designed for shank&washer, or ball end nuts like hondas use)