Bilstein or Koni

[doo0T!doo0T!]

O.K so I know there has been a lot of discussion on this lately but this is a serious question and I have been presented with two excellent options at virtually the same price.

I can get a good discount through Stocks on Koni and I have been to visit Edgar and Russell at the Koni Workshop and they have shown me what they can do for me and it all looks good.

An EG civic shock base, internally adjustable twin tube modified to be externally adjustable with 4inch threaded sleeves, aluminium spring keepers, any King spring rate I require and circlip slots in multiple positions for a variety of ride height options.


Or.....

After a long discussion with Shock Shop Station road they said they can supply a DC type R integra shock body modified in length to fit the EF crx, custom valved to suit the CRX with any Dobisport spring rates i require, again 4inch threaded sleeves, aluminium spring keepers and circlip slots in multiple positions for a variety of ride height options.


It basically comes down to a Koni Twin Tube adjustable vs a Bilstein Single tube non adjustable (but with a much bigger shock body)

Even though the Bilstein is not adjustable it will be valved to suit my car.

The band of adjustment on the Koni if you look at the dyno print out is very close and unless you are moving the shock at high velocity the difference is pretty narrow between the settings.

Both set ups will be approximately the same price (more than $2000, less than $3000) I dont want to say exactly as both parties will be going out of their way to provide a good price.

I respect both options, they are both very good quality options and both will be adapted to suit my car but I cant decide which way to go.[/img]

[nzcivicracer]

I'd say bilstein, I'm running them in my car & they're awsome!! Although they probably need revalving now as they're going a bit softer
Have you looked at other springs, Neuspeed, Tein, Eibach etc

[95ITR]

koni got them on my eg hatch very nice

Bilstein are nice too though either or really

[Coupe-R]

bilstein

I have 2 Bilstein factory shortended body Type R valved shocks for sale (let ur EF/DA go REALLY LOW with heaps of travel) and two machined front forks to fit the shocks

PM me if u want to know more

all u would need is springs and rear bilsteins (about 500)

[dazznz]

got koni's in my race integra and there are mint!!! i would reccommend them

[Baxter]

If I could make a sugestion - that only people who have tried (or know a lot about) both make comment - or the thread will turn into a simple vote for the number of people with Koni twin tubes vs the number of people with Bilsteins. Both of which are obviouisly very good.

Having said that, unless you need the adjustment (eg track days, etc) of the Konis, I'd go for the Bilsteins simply because afaik they are rebuildable (but maybe are Konis are as welll?).

[22]

(more than $2000, less than $3000)

Either or I guess, both are reputable in their shocks. However with that amount of money, you could look at Tein, Cusco or HKS.

[PizzaBoy]

Originally Posted by 22

Either or I guess, both are reputable in their shocks. However with that amount of money, you could look at Tein, Cusco or HKS.

Why bother with them when you can get a custom koni/bilstein setup tailored to your car with whatever spring rates and shock valving you want?

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by 22

Either or I guess, both are reputable in their shocks. However with that amount of money, you could look at Tein, Cusco or HKS.

Believe me I've looked at other options, but none can compare to what i get offered with both the Koni and the Bilstein. Remember this is a fully custom built shock for my car it's not just out off the shelf and out of the box.
This might piss some people off but the Tein dealer told me if I was serious about my suspension avoid Tein as they are a compromise for road going comfort and they are not properly re-valvable or re-buildable yet in NZ.
Same with Cusco's, and once they're worn out you throw them away and I would imagine in NZ it would be similar with HKS but i dont know I'm only speculating.

Price is not always an indication either, KYB AGX's are actually more expensive than Koni but dont offer anything like the Koni's for performance, durability and adaptability.

I'm going to go back to Koni with a front and rear standard shock for them to match up with and get a final quote because they were a bit up in the air about it because they hadn't done an EF for long enough to remember what shocks were best suited.
Once I have two final quotes (bilstein have given me a final quote and know what they will use) I think I will be able to weigh up the benifits better.

[Cyclone21]

I would imagine in NZ it would be similar with HKS but i dont know I'm only speculating.

You can get HKS coilovers rebuilt in NZ.

If you are dead set on going for the Koni or Bilstein I would go with the Bilstein (Yes Baxter I've tried both :!: )

I'd reccomend HKS or Cusco over both though, can't believe you didn't get those Cusco adjustables for $160!!

[Locust2000]

I've got or used neither, but I was selling motorbike suspension for 4 years(Race Tech, Progressive Suspension, Hyperpro). I'll assume you're after handling more than ease of adjustability or you probably wouldn't be asking and have bought the Konis.
Both are good shocks. I'd take the Bilsteins though, they're better built internals, have a larger shock bock(heat dissapation and potentially larger internal valves etc allowing better fluid control) and from a couple friends of mine that worked at Autolign, they'd take the bilsteins over koni's anyday.

For that price range tho i'm sure I remember pricing up a set of HKS's for my DC2 for about $2.5k late last year, though i've never used them either a couple mates swear by them.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Locust2000

I've got or used neither, but I was selling motorbike suspension for 4 years(Race Tech, Progressive Suspension, Hyperpro). I'll assume you're after handling more than ease of adjustability or you probably wouldn't be asking and have bought the Konis.
Both are good shocks. I'd take the Bilsteins though, they're better built internals, have a larger shock bock(heat dissapation and potentially larger internal valves etc allowing better fluid control) and from a couple friends of mine that worked at Autolign, they'd take the bilsteins over koni's anyday.

For that price range tho i'm sure I remember pricing up a set of HKS's for my DC2 for about $2.5k late last year, though i've never used them either a couple mates swear by them.

No harm in taking a look, who's the HKS dealer in Auckland?
I dropped the standard shocks off at Koni this morning and it sounds like on order to get them low enough they'll have to shorten the shock body and double the price of the shocks. I'm waiting on the final quote, so far I'm leaning in the Bilstein direction.

[Locust2000]

No idea, a mate of mine priced them up for me. At autosalon, I think it was Redline stand that had heaps of HKS stuff on display? Or google it sorry, I dunno.

[nzcivicracer]

Had a lengthly discussion with Andrew Short on Saturday, he would go Bilstein over Koni as they apparently last a bit longer (the seals & valves that is). I've heard this from someone else also.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by nzcivicracer

Had a lengthly discussion with Andrew Short on Saturday, he would go Bilstein over Koni as they apparently last a bit longer (the seals & valves that is). I've heard this from someone else also.

Yeah I agree, I'm sure they would seen as the piston diameter and shock body is nearly twice the size. i think it's 46mm verses 25 - 28mm.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Talked to Adam at Redline and HKS's are not really an option for what i'm looking for.
Firstly they dont do the EF platform any more (either that or Redline dont import for the EF)
There is no spring rate option, they come with a set spring rate so matched spring rates would be an additional cost from another supplier.
They are an "out of the box" deal so they wouldn't be able to shorten a DC shock for me.

But yes the price is the same, $2250 for DC2.

This is stil a Koni vs Bilstein race as far as I'm concerned.

[turbozxi]

I have Konis and would reccomend Konis. But if the guys from Stocks says Bilstein they will know what there on about for sure They rebuild at types of shocks don't they?. You can probably find a shock dyno graph online, konis tend to rate very well around the world. Edit yeah I have said it before Tein :thumbsdown:

[Coupe-R]

those DC2 HKS will fit ur EF fine. just run EG/DC front forks

but the rates is another thing they will work tho

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Redinteg

those DC2 HKS will fit ur EF fine. just run EG/DC front forks

but the rates is another thing they will work tho

Cant see how they could if DC bilsteins and Konis have to be shortened to suit the EF. EF crx shocks are shorter than DC's in the rear. Not sure about the front.

I jacked the suspension up to where I wanted it at static height and the front was 285mm from top of lower fork bracket to top of strut and the back was 380 from the lower eyelet centre to the top of the strut. Thats pretty short, at least 100mm shorter than a stock EF shock let alone a DC one so either way i cant really avoid customising.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

O.k I have had The final quote from Koni and a run down on what they will do.
King race springs.
8 setting external adjustabity.
threaded sleeves and platforms.
Shortened to operate from my desired static height.

It's a race set up and what they would recommend for an adaptable competition car.

Full retail was $3159 for the set of four including gst and labour but with my discount, as suspected is basically the same as the Bilstein quote give or take $50.

A few days ago I was swinging towards Bilstein for the larger piston size but now i'm swinging back to Koni for the adaptability and the fact that I'm getting more for my money.
The koni guys have said that Bilstein are a great shock but they have also assured me that the koni, despite it's smaller piston, is a more finely tunable shock for tarmac racing. They said If i was going rallying they would recommend a big piston shock like the Billy.

I have chose not to go for a spherical bearing at the top of the shocks as there is no point in a honda wish bone set up. The shock positioning has no real effect on geometry like it does in a mcphearson strut. i think I'l just use firmer rubber bushes.

Interestingly too i asked them what they thought of D2's as they work on all shocks at the stocks workshop, they said the whole 32(or 36 what ever it is) clicks on a D2's adjustment settings can be surpassed in three clicks on a Koni. The difference in the first 10 clicks on a D2 can barely be distinguished on the shock dyno chart print out.

[95ITR]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

O.k I have had The final quote from Koni and a run down on what they will do.
King race springs.
8 setting external adjustabity.
threaded sleeves and platforms.
Shortened to operate from my desired static height.

pretty much the setup i am running on my race car eg hatch

[nva2nd]

Ive got konis in my da6 and there so sweet!

[Ali]

Im looking at getting Bilstein soon, some good HT threads abou them

[doo0T!doo0T!]

I've gone Koni.
I was still pretty 50/50 with the Bilsteins but I felt I was getting more for my money with the Koni package.
Now i just have to pay for the damn things, they are being built as we speak.
It feels like christmas.

[Coupe-R]

those DC2 HKS will fit ur EF fine. just run EG/DC front forks

I stand by my quote they will fit 8)
weather or not they are suited to what u wanted is another thing

I have shortend body DC2R valved bilsteins that i had in my DA6 but they are WAYY to short for my EG. Im goin to sell em soon me thinks. THey were about $600 alone for the pair

hope ur setup goes well for ya