Make a submission to get the exhaust law repealed

[cubic]

I know this link has been posted before, but can we please make it a sticky so that everyone sees it and everyone can find it easily.

If you disagree with the new exhaust law make a submission here. If you don't, you have no right to moan about getting your car rejected by this new law. If you do, then you are helping all of us get this law removed.

This is the link to the official LTSA website and the official submissions form. Please find them to make a submission, even if it's only one sentence stating why you disagree with this law. If every car enthusiast does this it will make a fairly big number.

Once again the link is http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/consultation...ent/index.html

Go to the bottom of the page, and click on "Submission Form". Enter your correct details, then scroll down to "Exhaust systems - Overview Page 11", and fill it out.

If you can't be bothered filling it out, then you have no right to complain!

[Baxter]

Don't forget, when submitting it is helpful to sugest a solution (ie a simply decibel standard) after telling all the problems with the proposals...

[FEVAH]

My rant and rave. Its early in the morning and i have a cold so i hope it makes sense

The problem with this proposal is that it isn't uniform i.e is not applied in the same way from car to car as each different car has a different level of noise from the factory. For example: It is unfair to say that a 2002 Holden Senator with a factory reading of 100 Db (Decible) is ok but a 1989 Honda Crx fitted with a modified free flowing exhaust and a reading of 90Db is not. To say that the CRX is more likely to cause annoyance even though the limit is lower than the holden is nothing short of persecution of modified car owners. If a rule concerning a vehicles level of noise is to be applied then it needs to have a set Db limit in a standardised test and environment for all cars. If you take a look at the standards and testing procedure for Britain the manual is around 30 pages and is specific about the type of equipment and environment the vehicle is tested in. This is too ensure that each vehicle is tested in the same way and no exceptions. The current proposal also leaves it up to the inspectors discretion to judge whether the vehicle passes or fails. This is no way to conduct a test as it clearly targets young modified car owners vehicles. Testing must be done with specified equipment and procedures so ensure no human bias can enter. Overall i think more research needs to be done into what systems overseas governments are using and how they can be applied here as this proposal should not be allowed to become law.

[V-Teg]

I absolutely agree, my mate was pulled over by the cops after we had been followed (under the speed limit) for about 20 mins. After finding nothing wrong with the wof/licence/rego/anything else they tried pinning they said they had pulled him over for a loud exhaust, this was 10 mins into a full car scrutineering. They finally found a reason to fine him and left.
My point is that if it was the loud exhaust they noticed why did they not check that before having to think about it and the sirens they had flashing and the initial niose would be much more of a nuisance than the slightly loud exhaust.

Even cops have to feed the family I guess...

[SoL]

saw this on the news yesterday

Complaints about exhaust rules

Car mechanics say the Land Transport Safety Authority (LTSA) has jumped the gun by promoting new exhaust rules before they have become law.

The new rule is part of a crackdown on boy racers to prevent modified exhaust systems from being louder than they were originally.

Exhaust specialists believe cars may have failed their warrant of finesses because of noisy exhausts when they are acceptable under current rules.

But the LTSA defends its pamphlet which it sent to garages explaining the proposed rule.

"The guidelines that have been sent out to WOF agents are just that, guidelines, to assess whether an exhaust is excessively noisy or not," said Andy Knackstedt of the LTSA.

Submissions on the new exhaust rules close in a few weeks.

it all looks exactly like what it's supposed to be ... LTSA jumping the gun and creating a mess... it is not law and we have time to voice our objections... so DO IT LOUD AND DO IT NOW.... while we still can...

[turbozxi]

I went into Pitstop to see about getting another resonator installed today they say they will do it but will gaurantee I will still be green stickered if stopped. They have been told by the police that the they are going to be looking for anyone with a bigish exhaust tip ie chrome muffler and they will green sticker them. Guys say HSV owners are getting pinged just as bad.. He said my only solution is to install a restrictive resonator and a brand new GAY muffler $420 that would cost.

This shit is really serious the cops are said to be going to go on a blitz very soon.

National gets my next vote. Submission is in.

[GTXSMV]

Discrimination, thats all i can say!

[v42below]

If anyone is thinking of putting in a submission, please feel free to use any of my points below. Remember to write them in your own words

------------------

I appreciate the LTSA offering parties the opportunity to constructively comment on its proposals.

I believe the proposal regarding modified exhaust systems (“the proposal”) not only to be unreasonable and flawed in terms of fairness, but also subject to legal challenge on the grounds of discrimination, ultra vires and failure to consult.

Unreasonable

From the overview section of rule 32017 I gather that the purpose of the draft rule is the “…assessment, review and conversion into Rules of vehicle safety requirements in Part VII of the Traffic Regulations 1976 (the Traffic Regulations).” Regulation 81 of the Traffic Regulations states that any vehicle with an internal combustion engine must be fitted with an exhaust system and silencer that are effective and in good working order.


I fail to see the relationship between the level of noise of a modified exhaust and its safety. Whilst I would agree that it is entirely sensible to introduce a test to ensure a modified exhaust is at least as safe as the original, I see no logical reason for the level of noise produced by the modified exhaust to be included in such a test on safety grounds.

If, on the other hand, the concern being addressed by this proposal is excessive noise, then it would be logical to set an acceptable noise level for all exhaust systems, and not just the modified ones. It seems that, should the proposal be implemented in its current form, I will no longer be awoken from my sleep by “boy racers” driving noisy modified cars, but will still have to put up with the noise of the unmodified Harley Davidson motorcycles, which are just as loud, if not louder than the above mentioned “boy racers”. Such an outcome seems perverse.

Discrimination

The proposal seems to discriminate against a particular class of vehicle owners - those with modified exhaust systems. It is entirely possible, under the proposal, that of two hypothetical vehicles, which emit an identical level of noise, one would not be issued with a Warrant of Fitness, simply due to having a modified exhaust system rather than one that was fitted at the factory. I believe this may give parties grounds to challenge the proposal in court.

Ultra vires

I also note that, if the purpose of the regulations is only to set safety requirements, the proposal regarding modified exhausts, can be challenged in court on the grounds of being outside the purpose and powers of the relevant statute.

Fairness

I believe this proposal to be unfair to many New Zealand car owners, who have, in good faith, purchased vehicles with modified exhausts prior to this proposal. Should this proposal be implemented as is, such car owners will have to spend over a thousand dollars, through no fault of their own, or forgo the use of their vehicles. I hope you are aware that it is practically impossible to ensure that the noise level created by a modified exhaust system is less than or equal to the level created by the original system. This is why, in many cases, the entire exhaust system of the modified vehicle will have to be replaced in order to comply with the proposal.

The proposal would also drastically affect businesses which supply and install modified exhaust systems, as the proposal would effectively remove the market for such systems, thus damaging the New Zealand economy.

Failure to Consult

According to your website and the overview section of rule 32017, submissions on the proposal close on 3 June 2003 and the proposal will come into effect in early 2004. As of today, 12 May 2003, I am aware of four cases of vehicles failing their Warrant of Fitness due to “a noisy exhaust”.

I understand that these events are directly related to a letter from LTSA “Infosheet 2.04”, dated 23 April 2003, which instructs WOF inspectors to, upon receipt of the letter, apply the standard suggested in the proposal during WOF inspections. The letter refers to section 115 of the Land Transport Act 1998, which allows police to “green sticker” vehicles that have defects. This section of the Act in no way applies to Warrant of Fitness inspections, and does not give LTSA the powers to impose new and unreasonable regulations. I believe that implementing a proposal before the closing date for the submissions, not to mention almost a year in advance of it coming into force, shows the entire process of consultation to be a farce. I also believe this gives any party sufficient grounds for legal action.

Proposed Solution

I propose that the LTSA replace this proposal with one that will require a test to ensure that a modified exhaust is at least as safe as the original, and complies with a universal noise level standard, which would apply to all motor-vehicles, whether modified or not.

I believe this approach to be fair and reasonable, in contrast to the current proposal.


Yours faithfully,

[asia]

Hey,
got a forwarded email from Ron Scanlan @ Total Performance.

Originally Posted by Ron Scanlan

Hi all. As operators of motor vehicles requiring a WOF we have a problem
with the LTSA. In their 'wisdom' they have re-worded the regulations
regarding exhaust systems. While I do not like ridiculously noisy
exhaust systems the LTSA has set no benchmark for the accurate testing
of exhaust systems. In fact, their suggested test method is to:

"Rev the engine to half its maximum permitted limit indicated on the
vehicles tachometer..hold the engine at this speed for about five
seconds and then reduce to idling speed. Follow this with a series of
three or four short and sharp speed increases, from idle to test speed.
If the vehicle doesn't have a tachometer use your judgment to determine
engine speed, but follow the same test sequence."

There is no mention of the use of a decibel meter in Infosheet 2.04, or
the range at which one should be used, no accurate benchmark has been
laid out in the Infosheet. The WOF tester, or the police officer on the
roadside, is 'judge, jury and executioner' in this matter. The whole
process is unacceptable and will most assuredly result in hundreds of
exhaust systems being rejected at WOF time or cars/bikes being
'green-stickered' on the side of the road. (Not to mention the expense
of replacing otherwise acceptable/compliant exhaust systems.)

The details, should you require them, are available from the LTSA by
requesting a copy of Infosheet 2.04 from the LTSA's Director, Mr. Mark
Wright, PO Box 2840, Wellington.

Infosheet 2.04 is an ill-conceived document to say the least and needs
to be rescinded immediately. Our legal system is already overloaded but
if anyone who reads this is charged with operating a noisy vehicle then
I strongly urge them to plead 'Not Guilty' and take the matter up with
the courts.

Please print the letter in the attachment. Place your name and address
at the top. Sign it. Put it in an envelope and address it to; The
Transport Minister, Parliament Buildings, Wellington. You do not need a
stamp. Do it now. This matter needs to be aired and the LTSA needs to be
investigated immediately. Print the letter, sign and mail it. We need to
have a united effort here.

Keep your eyes and ears open for further developments in the mass media.

Here's the letter

Sam
P.S. If this had been covered, my bad

[v42below]

Mine is in the mail!

[zippy]

the law has not changed yet. however it is on the books.

we r currently only being hit by a calification info sheet that has been put out which this law seeks to confirm.


as stated above..........................

here is the offical submission form whch closes june 3.

c the bit that is titled overview page 11. it is the exhaust bit.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/consultation...sion-form.html

[hobbes]

took this off a post by KTm on onlinemotorsport forum, looks like he stole it off another link......


Interesting article off 'Skyline' channel.....
Wow what an interesting day today. Brad Lord of Performance car, Tony Johnson LVVTA, a rep from the LTSA, a high ranking plain clothes police officer all at the exhaust noise testing today.

V8's galore in different configurations from a blown T-bucket with side pipes, Holden SS, coupes, street rods, and customs, Evos, Skylines, a couple of Honda's, Subbies were all tested along with a Harley hahaha.

The V8's averaged all up of about 110 with the high being that T-bucket. It was making 122db at idle!

The highest jap car was Joe Kyle's blue R32 GTR at 103 I believe. Most were in the mid to upper 90's with a stock standard R33 GTS25t at a very low 83.7 db.

The shock of the day was a brand new Falcon XR6 turbo which made a very noisy 103 testing per the police guide lines! This was right off the show room floor folks.

I had great talks with Tony Johnson, and the LTSA rep. Most the LTSA guy. This noise issue is here to stay. The information gathered today will be put forth in a meeting mid next week with the LTSA, MTA, LVVTA, MP's and a few others. From what it seems is there is a push to make a set standard for all cars equal. i have no idea what it will be but it could be on the lines of the JASMA type setup they have in Japan with a Set DB limit and with the introduction of emmissions later on. I know tony does not want to have to go through the certing of all aftermarket exhausts but it seems to be the most logical.

Upon further digging nothing currently will allow you to get away with any exhaust system that produces more than the 84db currently in writing, or the ear test of the police and wof places. The LTSA and police know the LVVTA do not cert exhaust systems and believe the police officier was quick to mention that when a few of the V8 boys mentioned it. Tony J. confirmed this. So don't be misled at this time that getting some sore of motorsports cert will give you free ticket. Not a single cert of any kind will allow you drive daily on the roads with a loud system.

lets hope that something viable comes out of this meeting next week. It will take some time to hammer things into place so in the mean time we are on our own.

Oh BTW testing was done per the police guide lines now at 500mm at a 45 deg angel from the exhaust tip and level with it.

[Pnut]

thanks hobbes, nice to see some sort of action being taken and to be kept up to date as to what is being done about it all. I believe even if it means certs at least guys are trying to get some realistic guidlines in place, and as he said it won't be going away so this is the best solution. I would like to see some more details on thier results though!

[TegTeg]

Originally Posted by hobbes

Interesting article off 'Skyline' channel.....

The V8's averaged all up of about 110 with the high being that T-bucket. It was making 122db at idle!

The highest jap car was Joe Kyle's blue R32 GTR at 103 I believe. Most were in the mid to upper 90's with a stock standard R33 GTS25t at a very low 83.7 db.

The shock of the day was a brand new Falcon XR6 turbo which made a very noisy 103 testing per the police guide lines! This was right off the show room floor folks.

LOL at all the police pulling themselves over for noise :!:

[Gudgen]

WAT CAN U DO??

this by alistair davidson from NZ PETROLHEAD, so i suggest people copy this, put it in formal letter manner and send it to David Wright, Director, LTSA, PO Box 2840, Wellington, and to the Minister of Transport, the Hon. Paul Swain, Parliament Buildings, Wellington. No stamp is required for that one. Dont be aggressive or sarcastic; simply ask that Infosheet 2.04 be revisited. They suggest the following:

Dear _____,
As an owner of a legally modified vehicle I am concerned about the implications of the LTSA's testing procedure re: exhaust noise detailed in Infosheet 2.04. This procedure isn't accurate, as it relies too heavily on a WOF issuer and/or the police's understanding of what a standard vehicle sounds like.
The testing procedure doesn't use a calibrated decibel meter, so there is no tangible evidence to support a WOF failure or 'green sticker'.
How can the criteria "noticeably and significantly higher" be accurately evaluated?
I believe that my right to legally modify my vehicle has been compromised, and I would like to see noisy exhausts revert to being an operational rather than an equipment issue. To end this, Infosheet 2.04 should be rescinded immediately, and the procedure used by the LTSA to implement this Infosheet be fully and independently investigated.
Thank you for your consideration.

__________
(signature)

[Gudgen]

this whole thing will be won or lost within the next month. Just imagine a 1936 ford with a full blown chevy-powered engine putting it back to the factory 4-cyl. we can also go to court and plead 'not guilty' to a ticket which will clog up the legal system. we can bombard the LTSA and MP's to abolish the Infosheet 2.04 and then it goes back to police/WOF inspectors discretion. (and it was pretty leanient)

[piston]

Repco (repco in waikato) have a pettition going saying they want decibal testing introduced.

It says to have a limit of 95db

Acccording to the pettition motorsport nz competitors already have to comply to 95db