Question Re Dynos - from a dyno novice

[M3_Power]

Just a silly question ... apologies if I can't explain myself properly ... but are there any dynos in NZ that will spin all 4 wheels - i.e. independent from the power of the car?

I know that the hub dynos don't do this .. just wondering whether a rolling four wheel dyno will do it??

The reason for asking is on the new BMWs, the DSC stability system will limit rev range if it senses the rear wheels going at say 140km whilst the fronts are doing 0km ... unfortunately this happens even if you turn it off - hence on some BMWs you can only dyno the car up to a certain rev range but not to the red line ... that's unless you can get on a dyno that spins all four wheels.

#sits in the corner waiting to be lectured#

[OhSoSlow]

Sure you're turning it completely off? We put a m3 smg, and a csl on 2wd dyno, and it revved out etc fine..

edit: I would of thought that a 4wd dyno would be linked up to spin all 4 wheels at the same speed..

[M3_Power]

Originally Posted by OhSoSlow

Sure you're turning it completely off? We put a m3 smg, and a csl on 2wd dyno, and it revved out etc fine..

edit: I would of thought that a 4wd dyno would be linked up to spin all 4 wheels at the same speed..

Yeah ... all post 2003s won't rev past 6500rpm .... which dyno was this that you tested the CSL and M3 on?? I know there's a system out there that can turn the feature off completely - but the button on the dash definitely don't do it.

By the way how much power did the CSL make compared to the normal M3??

[Horny_Devil]

tried calling torque preformance? im sure robin will be able to point u in the right dirrection

[OhSoSlow]

Hi Velocity Dyno.. Go talk to him, he'll be able to sort ya out..

Can't remember exact figures, was long time ago, I think it was about 10kw more up top..

[dazznz]

usually on the m3's you push the dsc button once and it goes half off and then push it again and it will turn it fully off.

[Moclov]

Originally Posted by OhSoSlow

edit: I would of thought that a 4wd dyno would be linked up to spin all 4 wheels at the same speed..

A 4WD dyno would let all 4 wheels spin, but it wouldn't force a set of unpowered front wheels to spin, which is what M3_Power is after (I think)

[erichns]

ST Hi Tec can dyno an E46 M3 to get to 200rwkw on their dynapack dyno. Surely a CSL stability system can be turned off just like the normal M3? Given CSL's more hardcore nature?

[GecKo]

Originally Posted by M3_Power

Yeah ... all post 2003s won't rev past 6500rpm ....

[M3_Power]

Originally Posted by OhSoSlow

Hi Velocity Dyno.. Go talk to him, he'll be able to sort ya out..

Can't remember exact figures, was long time ago, I think it was about 10kw more up top..

Okay will find out ...

Here's a video of what I am talking about ... notice all 4 wheels are spinning ... (13MB file) so better download it
http://www.m3csl.de/videos/mike_m3-csl2.wmv

All pre 2003 BMWs can be dynoed by using the "hard" DSC off feature (ie. hold the DSC off button for more than 30 seconds - I know because that's how I was able to dyno my 2001 M3) .. but any BMW post 2003 don't have this hard off feature (have tried and it only goes to 6500rpm then stops revving).

From my understanding the ONLY way to do a proper POWER run (i.e. not an emission mode run to the redline) is to have a 4 wheel dyno (like the video above), where all 4 wheels are spinning - that's how the guys in the UK dyno their CSLs and remap their cars ...

There are two systems out there that I know that can turn off this rev limit (6500rpm) protection - one's called a GT1, the other an autologic diagnostic tool (neither of which are available in NZ as far as I am aware)...


Oh and guys in the UK get 20kw more at the wheels in the CSL compared to a normal M3 ...

[Coupe-R]

There would be soooo many ghetto ways to trick the system into thinking the fronts are spinning.

You could make something up, surely some Beemer freak has figured it out.

You would just need to modulate a voltage that would represent the front wheels spinning to the correct Engine computer sensor or directly to the allocated ECU pin.

However I don't know these cars at all so can't help

P.S What a sucky feature no 3rd gear burnouts over 6500rpm

[VTEC22]

edit ^^^hams boys think of the same things aye


Gutted no 4th gear on the spot burnouts

Any luck talking to BMW nz??

[b16a2]

time for a new ecu.. maybe a motec.. lol, hate to think how much it woulc cost to rewire n entire bmw

[dazznz]

Yer its quite simple really, you need to take it into BMW and they will plug it in to there service computer, and i am sure they will be able to turn DSC fully off.

As for tricking the ECU in one of these cars, the ecu is not really somthing you want to mess with on one of them, because it controls a hell of a lot more than it does in most cars, and you dont wana stuff it up or blow it up.

[timmiblc]

Let me know when/where you gonna do the dyno run, Tom. I might be persuaded to get my EK9 there for you to laugh at

Just wanna hear that CSL roar!

[workhackSIR]

Originally Posted by M3_Power

Okay will find out ...

Here's a video of what I am talking about ... notice all 4 wheels are spinning ... (13MB file) so better download it
http://www.m3csl.de/videos/mike_m3-csl2.wmv

All pre 2003 BMWs can be dynoed by using the "hard" DSC off feature (ie. hold the DSC off button for more than 30 seconds - I know because that's how I was able to dyno my 2001 M3) .. but any BMW post 2003 don't have this hard off feature (have tried and it only goes to 6500rpm then stops revving).

From my understanding the ONLY way to do a proper POWER run (i.e. not an emission mode run to the redline) is to have a 4 wheel dyno (like the video above), where all 4 wheels are spinning - that's how the guys in the UK dyno their CSLs and remap their cars ...

There are two systems out there that I know that can turn off this rev limit (6500rpm) protection - one's called a GT1, the other an autologic diagnostic tool (neither of which are available in NZ as far as I am aware)...


Oh and guys in the UK get 20kw more at the wheels in the CSL compared to a normal M3 ...

Yeah GAvin @ Hi Velocity is a BMW specialist, he will definately be able to sort you out 442 4451

[canman]

There are some rollers out there that you can buy an option for to have it match the wheel speed exactly for the reason you mention.

I don't know how likely it is that someone in NZ has that option as I'd imagine you'd need to justify the cost against how many customers you'd get who needed it but you never know.

Reality is that you can get dyno's out there that will do it, Dyno Dynamics, Dynojet and Mustang I think ........ pretty sure Velocity is a Dyno Dynamics so you might be lucky, especially since he's a BMW guy.

He'll have come across this issue before and will either have the ECU controller to switch it off, or just have the dyno add-on you need.

It's becoming harder and harder to dyno cars these days as the manufacturers are building in features such as you're experiencing that you just can't turn off.

Holden Crewmans are a perfect example of that...........I'm told even Holden dealers don't have the ability to turn off the ABS and 4WD warnings so they're impossible to run properly.

Our experience with BMW's is that you'll be hard pressed to beat the factory setup. We've seen people lose significant power by buying aftermarket exhausts and intake kits that weren't part of a proper kit from someone like Alpina or the like.

[M3_Power]

Originally Posted by canman

Our experience with BMW's is that you'll be hard pressed to beat the factory setup. We've seen people lose significant power by buying aftermarket exhausts and intake kits that weren't part of a proper kit from someone like Alpina or the like.

That is soo true ... the Americans are dyno nuts and many have seen dramatic torque and power losses from adding an intake and exhaust to highly tuned M engines .... afterall why mess with what BMW F1 created (talking about the intake) ....

Although I have heard of great result with minor remaps ...


Have found Hi Velocity's website and it seems they have a dyno dynamic dyno ... will touch base with Gavin and see what he says ...

Thanks for all the replies guys ...