Quick B20b + B16a + boost question

[tjones]

Hi quick question before i throw it in and retune it

How much boost can the standard pistons in the b20b stand up to on a daily basis with a b16a head

im hoping for 10 psi (havent got a new map sensor yet) by b16a lasted a year on that before the oil pump gave out, So i have my tuning sorted now should be easy to get it reliable in that sence

Got 440s etc

setting rev limit at 7200 to be safe

would it be sweet + can i run more as i know it will drop the compression down to 9 something maybe 15 if i grab a map sensor?

[xsiv]

what have u done to the bottom end, rods, rod bolts.
this is a very weak part of the motor in b20

[tjones]

nothing will just be std b18c head bolts thats it stock motor

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

pretty sure standard b20 blocks hate boost...a very low 5psi type setup could be safe enough but 10 psi with any turbo bigger then a snail will be dangerous

[tjones]

i got a small turbo anyway td05h you reacon it would be no good at 10psi as i reacon a b16a on 10psi would prob be quicker than b20b on 5psi

[Pommy]

dont bother boosting a stock b20... youll generate enough torque with the turbo so just go b16/b18/even an h22a...

[tjones]

to late got the block and vtec conversion bits so its going b20b + b16a with boost spose ill set it at 5psi and see how it goes

[madDC4]

I got a B18b turbo, running 9psi, over 20,000kms and counting.....
B20b I dunno....

[Bananaman]

I would suggest a block gaurd and a crank girdle and you will be set.

Just need to realise that the stock B20 twists a little and with that in mind cracks tha bores.

[VTAKYO]

Balance the bottom end - whatever you do!!! A block guard is also a good idea. If you want to use it as a daily, I would be prepared to spend some decent money to ensure it will last. I think Pommy is right in saying just to build another B16 turbo, or get a B18B/C.

Also, the clutch is almost guaranteed to slip and blow very very quickly unless it is something very heavy duty. The B20's are reknowned for eating clutches and drivetrain something chronic. There is just something about their torque delivery that makes them much harsher on drivetrain than B18C Turbo's - and this is what I was told about standard B20 VTECs... so turbo one and you have a whole mammoth of other problems. The chap who was going to build mine told me a standard clutch would slip instantly, and blow within a day max. Your average heavy-duty Exedy is expected to last about 20,000kms, and he has found with some B20s he has built that even they make the Exedys slip straight out of the box. Turbo one and yea, you get the picture. So, in other words, I think you should get a good amount of money aside to build one properly and make it reliable. A Type R clutch with upgraded pressureplate may be an idea - talk to Hayden/BTLF3D about what his experiences with clutches has been.

It is these problems that put me off doing a B20.

[BTLF3D]

yes either buy a new type r clutch, or a brand new honda b20 clutch and get the pressure plate uprated.

[tjones]

ok well we will have to see cos i got a std clutch that has lasted (forever) on copious amounts of boost never had it out to check it though,

As for heavy duity clutches i have never had one in a honda any recommendations for one to hold a heap of torque?

Now i have a block guard from my b16a so hope it will fit (if i can get it out again)

Will be swapping the oil pickup and sump from the b16 and using a hamp 1/2 size filter oil feed for the vtec will come from a (thingy) that sits behind the oilfilter

and for the turbo from the oil presure sensor.

Ill keep the pcv system the same or swap the one from the b16a over

Getting a head shave tommorrow morning as little as possible thou

dont think there is anything else i need to do got a b20b cambet as ill leave the b20b water pump there and also leave the b20b oil pump as i dont have a spare thats not full of bits of bearings and crankshaft

edit bolting to a y1 lsd box type r clutch not an option should go well in my ef8 anyway it was getting a bit boaring just having a turbo 1600 vtec crx now ill have a turbo 2leter vtec crx YEA!

[VTAKYO]

The standard clutch will NOT last more than a day, possibly even a few minutes (I was told there was a chance my standard one would get blown apart instantly). Don't even waste your time using it.

You need a B18B cambelt if you are using the B16A head.

As Hayden said, look at a B20 or B18CR one with uprated pressureplate... how to use this with a cable box, I am not 100% sure.

If you are not touching the internals of the engine, I think the clutch is the least of your worries... I give it a few weeks or so before you throw a rod. Balancing it would at least give you a little peace of mind, but still, the extra power of the turbo will put them under a lot of stress.

[tjones]

u sure i need a b18b cambelt i thought cos i was retaining the b20b water pump i could keep the b20b cambelt

going to have to risk it on the b16a clutch and change my driving style to appreciate this cant seem to find any gen1 clutches for grabs atm to suit

doubt it would throw a rod @5psi its not that much more power esp if i set the rev limit at say 7

yea only thing will be the block guard

[BTLF3D]

Originally Posted by VTAKYO

The standard clutch will NOT last more than a day, possibly even a few minutes (I was told there was a chance my standard one would get blown apart instantly). Don't even waste your time using it.

You need a B18B cambelt if you are using the B16A head.

As Hayden said, look at a B20 or B18CR one with uprated pressureplate... how to use this with a cable box, I am not 100% sure.

If you are not touching the internals of the engine, I think the clutch is the least of your worries... I give it a few weeks or so before you throw a rod. Balancing it would at least give you a little peace of mind, but still, the extra power of the turbo will put them under a lot of stress.

i wouldnt say it wouldnt last one day, because i think it would probly last for a bit, my old b16a turbo had a standard clutch and went for ages 8)

[hybrid_H]

Originally Posted by BTLF3D

i wouldnt say it wouldnt last one day, because i think it would probly last for a bit, my old b16a turbo had a standard clutch and went for ages 8)

thats weird my oem exedy slipped straight outta the box after running it in 500km's, when i turbo'd. so went straight to a 5 puk ceramic, and havnt had any problems for 5000 k.

[Bigelboe]

Originally Posted by VTAKYO

The standard clutch will NOT last more than a day, possibly even a few minutes (I was told there was a chance my standard one would get blown apart instantly). Don't even waste your time using it.

Sorry man but thats some mad propaganda. The standard clutch will probably just slip a bit when you get up near peak torque with a boosted setup, why on earth would it explode

As for the b20 block dont listen to what anyone on here tells you about its limits, pretty much no-one on this forum pushes stock things to the limit like the yanks do, so go and have a read on H-T. Last time I was over there I found a really interesting thing on pouring your own block guard using aluminium epoxy, seemed to work really well and avoid the gay fitment and cooling issues of the aluminium block guards.

right here even http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1444721

[VTAKYO]

I didn't mean explode, just become totally worn out, and slip and slip.

[Bigelboe]

Ah yup, and I guess when you said minutes you meant minutes of on-boost, cause you could cruise it around forever and not put any extra loads on the clutch.

The clutch is very simple, the only question is will it hold the torque, Im guessing for low boost it will. If you take the gearbox off you can check the breaking torque with a monster torque wrench and a nifty tool made from an old gearbox input shaft.

Whether it can take the heat is another question, but not so cruical unless you like to slip the clutch alot on launches and stuff.

[2sifty]

i call bullshit on the clutch not handling it. how can a b18c turbo making 350hp and 290ftlb at the wheels on a stock type r pressure plate and stock clutch plate handle semi slicks and and last a year plus and several drag meets but not handle a low boost b20b !i think someone telling u stories.and as for crank balancing i done 4 b20b all stock block with either civic type r or integra type r heads bounced happily off the 8500 limiter with no crank issues(as far as i aware one still going strong 3 years later)

[2sifty]

also if u use the factery 19 tooth water pump on a b18b or b20b use the factory cambelt. change to a b16a,type r,b18c 22 tooth water pump use a b18c cambelt(dont matter a toss whether u use b16a or b18c head)
also b20b/b18b rods are the same the only reason they would fail is from the extra weight of the b20b pistons

[DC2r]

Originally Posted by Bigelboe

Sorry man but thats some mad propaganda. The standard clutch will probably just slip a bit when you get up near peak torque with a boosted setup, why on earth would it explode

As for the b20 block dont listen to what anyone on here tells you about its limits, pretty much no-one on this forum pushes stock things to the limit like the yanks do, so go and have a read on H-T. Last time I was over there I found a really interesting thing on pouring your own block guard using aluminium epoxy, seemed to work really well and avoid the gay fitment and cooling issues of the aluminium block guards.

right here even http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1444721

Yeah thats complete bullshit... the b20 vtec does have torque, but its not so much that it would eat them so often... i have a couple of mates with b20b's running oem clutches, ones run down the trip about 30odd times, launching burnouts, flatshifting, and after 30,000kms its onyl starting to slip now.

duno but your engine builder must build some mad crazy b20s if they do that....

[tjones]

well its all togeather except a catch tank (custom pcv system) and tuning, turns over mint

But wont start because of the 440s will need to do a new map tonight and take it out on the wideband for a street tune

sounds healthy but the starter keeps jaming and makking a funny noise or something maybe the battery just isnt getting it enough amps.

A few issues not really documnted.

Factory water temprature sensor on the block has no where to go the b20b one is on the thermostat, Didnt want to cut loom so jonno cut coolent pipe and welded a nut in there

Power steering braket didnt want to fit from b16a to b20b so just converted the crx to a manuel rack lucky we had one lying round

dowels were a bitch but lathed them down

my manifold still leeks from around the turbo even thou i put heaps of shit on it to keep it locked

B20b crank pully is huge just swaped it for the b16 one allong with the flywheel

STRONG HONDA ONLY GAVE US 8 HEADBOLTS not 10 so will be taking it up with them today so had to use b16 ones in the centre 2 (slightly shorter)

PCV system is non existant on b20b so had to tap a hole in block at the top of one of the oil galerys

retained the b20 sump and pick up was easyer to weld a oil drain in than to clean all the metal shavings out of the other one

a few more later got to start work

[Coupe-R]

Also, the clutch is almost guaranteed to slip and blow very very quickly unless it is something very heavy duty. The B20's are reknowned for eating clutches and drivetrain something chronic. There is just something about their torque delivery that makes them much harsher on drivetrain than B18C Turbo's

hehe sounds like someone has told you bad stories.

Look at it this way, power is power. It's not the big bad B20 doing any crazy stuff.

E.G B16A turbo could be putting out HEAPS more power and torque than a mild B20. So saying B20's in general kill drive trains is all circumstantial.

P.S to run a decent clutch with cable box, get a up rated pressure plate (VERY HEAVY) and just run a stock small spline clutch plate to fit. It should be mint!

What you using to tune, yeh crank fuel would have been too much therefore no start (however I thought it still would have) Have you mucked with the fuel pressure too, if so that would be why.
Hope you are running a resistor box if the injectors need one otherwise ECU burn out will happen
However I have no idea what power+boost levels a stock B20bottom end can take. Do some H-T reading. (Not dyno numbers, but reliable 20,000k plus power figures)

If the water pump and oil pumps are better on the B16/B18C then I would defiantly swap them over!

[tjones]

on ht they were making 312hp at 8.5psi for over a year but thats a bit more than im aming for i would be chuffed with 230-250 with heaps of tourqe. With the turbo it gets up there plenty fast enough allready.

Yea going to tune it with bre later tonight and a wideband

Its a ef8 allready has the resistor box by default
would be running super rich as the injectors have doubbled in size and the fuel map was for b16a turbo so will change that
it is getting plenty of fuel as flames shot out of intake mani
Havent touched any of the fuel presure or pump at all

Im thinking the battery we were using to turn it over may not have been powerfull enough as the starter kept making a funny noise and stoping cranking the motor over but no nasty noises from the head or the block so fingures crossed it starts tonight