Oil movement when cornering?

[CTR_Chick]

Just wanted to know how carefull I should be with my car when taking it around the track in regards to oil. ie: when cornering the oil in the sump moves to one side and when you put your foot down coming out of the corner it cant get circulated through the engine because its sitting in the side of the sump - right?

Engine is a B16B.

Would I need something put in the sump to stop it all going to one side?

[Trench_Rat]

Ok start from the beginning , you are kind of right in what you said about the oil moving around in the sump but your stock sump will have a baffle around the pick up to hold some oil there so you dont run completely dry. I havnt seen a b16b sump but pretty much all sumps have the baffle built into the windage tray so that the oil running back out of the engine gets directed down to the pick up before dispersing into the sump this way there will still be oil flowing down to the pick up when you accelerate out of the corner. Now this isnt completely perfect in race condition but it will be fine on track day just make sure your oil is at the full mark at the begining of the day and check it after every outing.

[CTR_Chick]

I suppose the question is then how well do these factory baffles work because this civic can corner at some pretty good speeds and I would hate to damage it.....

[LALA]

It would tend to be more of a concern when you start using sticker tyres on the track, sticky tyres = more potential for quicker cornering = more chance of oil being stuck to 1 side of the sump = :cry:
I have not heard it to be that much of a problem with Honda B series engines, but it is definately a prob with some other makes of cars (I know )

[BigAl]

all b series , when driven hard on a track will suffer from some oil surge on tight left handers .
tighter the corner and better the grip, bigger the problem .
by the time your gauges have noticed the problem its probably too late
all good b series road race engines have extra baffles fitted . quite a simple job
check out the mugen design and copy it

[timmiblc]

I have a full race CTR that i try and thrash at as many track days as possible. Last time out I didn't bother checking the oil before I started racing and later found out it was on the "min" mark. ops: I run Dunlop semi slicks and a full roll cage so it corners pretty hard (bloody hard actually) and I have never had a problem.

Oil pressure is alway up around 4 - 5 bar and the engine never misses a beat.

Don't worry about it, it's more of an issue in K series I think. I know pleanty of people who track their cars without baffled sumps and they still go fine. B series + oil + regular maintenance = go all day.

[Bunger]

I've seen the evil oil pressure light on a few tight lefts... thankfully I killed that motor long ago =) I have some pics of the Mugen pan around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up.

[PizzaBoy]

Originally Posted by Bunger

I've seen the evil oil pressure light on a few tight lefts... thankfully I killed that motor long ago =) I have some pics of the Mugen pan around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up.

Yes please

I know when I've forgotten to check the oil. Come out of a corner and hello, no vtec 8O back to the pits to top up and we're off again

[95ITR]

Originally Posted by BigAl

all b series , when driven hard on a track will suffer from some oil surge on tight left handers .
tighter the corner and better the grip, bigger the problem .
by the time your gauges have noticed the problem its probably too late
all good b series road race engines have extra baffles fitted . quite a simple job
check out the mugen design and copy it

I have know a few people with this problem, always a good mod to have is baffled sump.

K series suffers from this alot more than B Series and if you are doing just trackdays i wouldnt worry about it.

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by PizzaBoy

Yes please

I know when I've forgotten to check the oil. Come out of a corner and hello, no vtec 8O back to the pits to top up and we're off again

if you are loosing vtec the surge is serious bearing destroying stuff and definitely time to look at fitting a baffled sump[oil pan].

[beeker]

Originally Posted by Bunger

I've seen the evil oil pressure light on a few tight lefts... thankfully I killed that motor long ago =) I have some pics of the Mugen pan around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up.

yes please.

[PizzaBoy]

Originally Posted by BigAl

if you are loosing vtec the surge is serious bearing destroying stuff and definitely time to look at fitting a baffled sump[oil pan].

Yeah I know, I think the main problem is the litre of oil it drinks every 15-20mins on the track

Methinks im gonna be up for an engine rebuild soon :cry: :twisted: 8)

[DrTec]

Originally Posted by PizzaBoy

Yeah I know, I think the main problem is the litre of oil it drinks every 15-20mins on the track

Methinks im gonna be up for an engine rebuild soon :cry: :twisted: 8)

Id say thats more the issue at hand But even so, that time you took me out the oil light went on a few times and you still had vtex.. probly a good idea we went off tho

Personally i dont think the tyres most of us can afford/use on the track will cause too much concern oil wise.. and i will 2nd the fact that bseries+maintenece = all day

[PizzaBoy]

Originally Posted by DrTec

Id say thats more the issue at hand But even so, that time you took me out the oil light went on a few times and you still had vtex.. probly a good idea we went off tho

Personally i dont think the tyres most of us can afford/use on the track will cause too much concern oil wise.. and i will 2nd the fact that bseries+maintenece = all day

I've never noticed the oil light on the track, why didnt you say something!

[DrTec]

Originally Posted by PizzaBoy

I've never noticed the oil light on the track, why didnt you say something!

I thought i did

Or maybe i "thought" i thought i told you.. less competition that way

[americ_ian]

also a problem with h22a's
ie what happend to luke

im in the process of making a baffled sump this week actauly

[freestylin_hamster]

Originally Posted by PizzaBoy

Yeah I know, I think the main problem is the litre of oil it drinks every 15-20mins on the track

Methinks im gonna be up for an engine rebuild soon :cry: :twisted: 8)

haha i know of some great cams that would go super in that up for slae in the near future *hint* *hint*

[doo0T!doo0T!]

I'm sure if you were serious a semi dry sump set up wouldn't be all that difficult to design and fit.
You could buy a belt driven scavenger pump (of higher volume than your oil pump) which contstantly pumps the sump/catch tray contents into a resivour which fills to the top and overflows via another oil line back into the sump to re-circulate.
It would be a low pressure circuit.
From there you'd have to take the pick up to your standard pump. that way, like a fuel surge tank you would ensure a completely constant un-interupted oil flow.

[BigAl]

most b series use oil when raced . I would look at replacing the valve seals before rebuilding as they are a high wear item when running high revs for exstended periods[racing]

if the oil light is comming on you are well into the seriously low oil pressure area!
you will loose vtec well before the oil warning light glows.
vtec needs around 60psi to stay in and oil light comes on at around 25psi

I still recomend that if you are looking at running track days and trying hard you consider welding some basic baffles in your sump. all you need is 2 flat plates cut to surround the pickup area as per spoon or look at heeltoe in USA who do a simple kit .

[RJ]

Originally Posted by americ_ian

also a problem with h22a's
ie what happend to luke

im in the process of making a baffled sump this week actauly

The scary thing is that my car cut out twice on my last session out on the same corner where Luke blew up - needless to say I parked the car after that. I was suprised how much oil it used. That was a long left where I was usually doing about 140/150.

[Track Whore]

Mr spoon says to run a little extra oil so thats what i did in my old track ITR, i never had a problem and that thing could really corner.

I use to just put an extra 300ml to 500ml of oil in and it was sweet so yea good cheap alternative.

[americ_ian]

^^ funny thing is, luke just topped up his oil
mr spoon is right tho, he also says to change your gearbox oil every time you change your engine oil for all you "track whores"

id say the start of the damage had been done in prior laps leading up to that corner and a killer corner to say the least

[4 TTL]

My personal best is about 3/4 of a bent sprint meeting at Puke. no baffles, VTEC stopped working 'cause all the bearings were in the head...

did OK for free engine.

backwards over the "John Deere" hill is not good for Hondas.

[rallyprelude]

I have had the vtec cut out a couple of times on left corners , looks like I will have to baffle the sump, Cheers for the thread guys hopefully it will fix it.

[fatwagon]

prevention is better than cure - if in doubt baffle it