EF7 hybrid ZC/D16a6 Turbo. Indexed

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Cheers mate, yeah it was good to meet you too, shame i didn't get your number before we left the track, Brian and i ended up stumbling around till 4:30 am before finally finding some Honda crew again. But we got to touch some nice boobs in the process! Pretty sure I saw you stopped at a Gassy on the way back up.
I'm aiming to get the car to Taupo in December but finding the time to complete it is proving the biggest problem.
Not sure about the plate yet, I have to concentrate on getting it going before I go putting a plate on it. Which reminds me I better check my plates are still live it's been a while now...

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Just went to Wolf mufflers and bought all the bends I need for my super-duper EGC valved exhaust system I have planned. Got stung $380 for the bends though 8O
It'll be straight out of the turbo into a 3" collector which will go straight past the back of the radiator under the chassis and out in front of the front wheel through the side of the bumper.
Underneath the collector a 2.5" section will plumb in and end up going down under the sump and join the existing 2.5" section with a new flexi which I will add flanges to so it can be removed.
The waste gate will mount parrallel to the 3" dump pipe and plumb back directly into the collector above where the main 2.5" exhaust taps off.
To the drivers side end of the collector, after the main exhaust taps off will be an 80mm Apexi EGC valve which I will use to control which exhaust system gets used. I will never be able to fully shut off the 2.5" sectin but the majority of exhaust is going to want to flow straight out the 3" unrestricted section.
I decided not to make a waste gate screamer pipe because they are a waste of time and there are no performance gains to be made by having one. Just wank value. Anyway the straight through 3" will drown out any screamer pipe anyway.

There is a reason for doing this, it's not just to be a hoon. When Nigel had a similar system on Lofreq he measured somthing like a 20 - 30KW difference in power at the wheels between using the straight dump and the full exhaust.

If it's sucsessful I'll adapt my old internal wastegate actuator to open and close the valve and control it with another boost soleniod using the vtec switch output on the turbolink so it will open every time at a certain boost level over a certain RPM.

There's quite a bit of tube when you add it all up so it's going to mean a lot of heat wrapping to be done!!!

heres a bit of a drawing of what I have planned.

[xsiv]

wo thats an intence design

[EVLTEK FBI AKL]

the EGC valve needs to be more of a Y join - otherwise the air will go out both pipes when open....

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by EVLTEK

the EGC valve needs to be more of a Y join - otherwise the air will go out both pipes when open....

yeah I know but I'm not really worried, it'll still remove the restriction straight away when opened.

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

I will never be able to fully shut off the 2.5" section but the majority of exhaust is going to want to flow straight out the 3" unrestricted section.

...when the EGC valve is open.

The 2.5" system will have enough mufflers to make it pass a decibel test so it'll more than likely be restrictive enough that the majority of gas will naturally flow out the easiest, freest flowing route i.e straight ahead out the larger diameter pipe.
The 3" pipe flows nearly 55% more cfm of gas than the 2.5" despite only a 1/2 inch increase in diameter. It's the square rule.


The EGC valve is actually illegal to use on the road stupidly as the warrent of fitness rules say that the exhaust system may not be modifiable or adustable via manual control or electronic control without tools.

This is rediculus as all modern large capacity euro cars and supercars have the same system supplied OEM.
On the Audi S6 for example there are two parrellel exhaust systems running to the back of the car, one is straight through, the other has bigg baffles and mufflers, at over 60km/h when you hit the gas, the manifold pressure drops and the valves actuate via vacuum pots to swap to the straight through system.
Ferrari's and Lambo's do the same thing inside the large baffle box which sits on top of the gearbox.

How come you can buy it on a new car but cant retrofit on an old car? Not even with a cert.

I'm going to have to unbolt the dump at the EGC valve point and bolt on a blanking cap when I go for my warrent and cert.

[nzcivicracer]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

There is a reason for doing this, it's not just to be a hoon. When Nigel had a similar system on Lofreq he measured somthing like a 20 - 30KW difference in power at the wheels between using the straight dump and the full exhaust.

Yeah that sounds right, I think with turbos the quicker you dump the exhaust the better, cause all the 'back pressure' is on the turbine.

Lovin the setup there, should scare the kids in the neighbourhood

[turbozxi]

Can you actually get a WOF or cert with just a bolt on blanking plate in place? I saw a dirty V8 wagon today that had a similar setup existing behind the front tyres I would of assumed it was unwofable.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by turbozxi

Can you actually get a WOF or cert with just a bolt on blanking plate in place? I saw a dirty V8 wagon today that had a similar setup existing behind the front tyres I would of assumed it was unwofable.

Apparently so, I got my old man to ask Mark Stokes and it seems it's o.k as long as you have to use tools to alter the system.
Once the EGC valve is in however it'll be a moving violation.

What they wont like is the dumpy exiting in the front. You're not supposed to have exhaust exiting infront of the rear most passenger's seating position for fume reasons.
I'll be expecting a few pinkies if it gets noticed but provided the valve's shut it shouldn't attract too much attention, It's not like I'm going to be roaring up residental streets at night with the pipe open and flames roaring out the side of the car, it'll be just an occasional squirt to relive stress :wink:

[turbozxi]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Apparently so, I got my old man to ask Mark Stokes and it seems it's o.k as long as you have to use tools to alter the system.
Once the EGC valve is in however it'll be a moving violation.

What they wont like is the dumpy exiting in the front. You're not supposed to have exhaust exiting infront of the rear most passenger's seating position for fume reasons.
I'll be expecting a few pinkies if it gets noticed but provided the valve's shut it shouldn't attract too much attention, It's not like I'm going to be roaring up residental streets at night with the pipe open and flames roaring out the side of the car, it'll be just an occasional squirt to relive stress :wink:

Yeah I can understand that aslong as it can be certed . Did he breath test Stokes?

[phonix]

Your probably already on top of this but the way you have drawn the wastegate downpipe will not flow well at all. Ideally you would want it further downstream on the exhaust and joining at a much gentler angle. This will promote better flow and less disturbance of the turbos exhaust flow. But yeah Im sure your on top of it already.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by phonix

Your probably already on top of this but the way you have drawn the wastegate downpipe will not flow well at all. Ideally you would want it further downstream on the exhaust and joining at a much gentler angle. This will promote better flow and less disturbance of the turbos exhaust flow. But yeah Im sure your on top of it already.

well...sort of...I know theres a potential problem but there's not much I can do. With the manifold I'm using it's really short and the turbo sits pretty high, unfortunately the four runners collect neatly into the turbo and the only space I'll get to mount the tube for the waste gate is smack bang in the centre of the cluster of four tubes. Unfortunately it's going to be facing up as the gas is heading down so you're right in saying the gas is going to have to get turbulent before it finds it's way to the wastegate tube.


I'm not that worried because the turbulence is not going to mean a loss in power because when the wastegate opens I'm close to max power anyway, what I am worried about is it might act as a venturi and flow in the opposite direction. there's only one way to find out though and thats to try. I dont hink it'll be a problem as the turbo is so small anyway there should always be a decent high pressure point infront of it..


edit****

Hang on a minute you're meaning the other tube arn't you, the wastegate dump after the wastegate. If thats the case then yeah not a problem I can plumb it in at a gentler angle than is showed in the diagram, the diagram is just a simlified version, in reality it's all a lot closer together. Cheers for the input. :thumbsup:

[doo0T!doo0T!]

This has been a long time coming.

Well I finally fired it up and drove it for 5 whole Kilometres last night.
I had it set up N/A with my I/H/E off the civic and after a whole afternoon of trying to get it going (turns out there is somthing wrong with the Mallory 6a it fired up and went.
At first the fuel pressure was way too high with the Malpassi reg and the bosche pump, I bypassed the malpassi and ran the stock FPR until it gets on the dyno to be set properly.
BTW the fuel pump is Loud! It's mounted to the floor in the back and it vibrates the whole inside of the car.
There was a bit of coughing and farting as it fired up for the first time ever which has to be expected.
I waited till the oil had circulated then I re-set the lifters and we were away with my brother in the passengers seat standing by with the fire extinguisher!!!!!.

It takes a full 5 ltr of oil now with the cooler and massive remote filter and runs a huge 7 bar of oil pressure cold.

Now heres the bad news, 2.5k's down the road the water temp went through the roof, it was fine when I slowed down and idled but with any load on it it would shoot up to nearly 100deg. I limped it home and it just started to boil as it crawled up the driveway.
The thermostat seems to be jammed shut because the bottom radiator hose was cold while the top of the radiator tank was nearly too hot to touch (it's alloy) I cant understand why it did as it's brand new, I'll have to pull it off and test it. Also the cooling fan never came on.
The other thing it could be is I have run a bypass to cool the turbo which had been looped together while i ran it in N/A so it could have been bypassing too much water and not allowing enough cooling to the engine.

The Koni shocks feel awsome, no more harsh crashing over little bumps like the KYB's in the civic and the short shift and short throw clutch + light flywheel feel fantastic. (stalled 3 times on the driveway!!) but the gearchange is so direct and fast.

It's not the fastest thing out at the moment being only 8.3:1 compression but it seems to be running better and better as the ecu wakes up from it's year and a half sleep and the rings bed in.

The ECU is showing no codes, my wiring was not as bad as I first thought.

I compression tested it, stock nominal cylinder pressure is supposed to be 192 psi @ 9.5:1 compression.
I measured 167, 172, 172, 167 (5psi diffrence) which is consistant with my calculations, 172 psi should be about 8.35:1 compression)
This was measured before the first run so it should only get closer together as the valves settle in the seats and the rings bed in.

There were no signs of head gasket problems despite the bit of a boil it received, and it's not burning any oil so my honing job must have worked.
Now that the lifters are adjusted it's quite quiet but the cambelt makes quite a bit of noise now that the shrouds have all been removed.

There are a few bugs that need ironing out, my gauges flicker and sometimes dont read anything and somtimes read maximum, I'll have to check the wiring.
Obviously I have to find out why the thermostat is not operating and find out why both the turbolink and the Mallory are not letting the ignitier signal through to the coil.
The rear gaurds need to have the lips rolled as the R888's on the 7" rims are pretty wide and they are rubbing badly on the out side in corners.

It's a bit of a mixture of emotions, I'm stoked it's going but theres a few problems (as to be expected I suppose) that I'll have to sort out next weekend.

Sorry I dont have any pics or vids yet as my GF took off for the weekend and took the camera with her.

[BTLF3D]

The thermostat thing happend to me aswell, brand new honda thermostat and it didnt open the 1st time on the dyno, took it out and re-installed it, then it worked sweet?

How is the fuel pump mounted? i have a bosch pump mounted in boot and isnt that loud, make sure you have something rubber around the mounting points so it is fully rubber mounted.

Also why so low compression? alot of low comp motors i have seen on the net (4agze's etc) have to run mega boost to get good power.

And the gauges (are they autogauge?) if they are, mine do the same thing, i think its just something that happens with cheapish gauges?

GL on getting it all fixed up.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by BTLF3D

The thermostat thing happend to me aswell, brand new honda thermostat and it didnt open the 1st time on the dyno, took it out and re-installed it, then it worked sweet?

How is the fuel pump mounted? i have a bosch pump mounted in boot and isnt that loud, make sure you have something rubber around the mounting points so it is fully rubber mounted.

Also why so low compression? alot of low comp motors i have seen on the net (4agze's etc) have to run mega boost to get good power.

And the gauges (are they autogauge?) if they are, mine do the same thing, i think its just something that happens with cheapish gauges?

GL on getting it all fixed up.

Yeah I'll take the thermostat out and boil the shit out of it in a pot on the stove until it opens.

The fuel pump is mounted in an old ignition coil bracket but it does have a rubber sleeve around it.
Maybe it's just because it's actually in the passenger compartment with me which makes it so loud. I dont mind the noise it's actually pretty cool, I've got a switch on the dash to turn it on and it's nice to hear it fire up when you flick the switch.
Yeah you're right about the compression I'll have to run at least 14 psi but I wanted it to be safe and reliable and I also had a set of brand new de-comp pistons to use.

Yeah the gauges are Autogauge but I think I might have a wiring problem because they cant honestly be supposed to be this bad. What the point in having them if you cant trust them or at least read them. I sure hope I can fix them or I'll be pretty pissed off.

[Bananaman]

Sounds good dude. Can't wait to see it in turbo form.

Looks like you only have reasonably minor things to sort out and it should be all sweet.

[nzcivicracer]

Awesome bro, look fwd to seeing this thing go 8)
Sounds like Trench_Rats oil pump is doing its job eh :thumbsup:

When are you going to convert back to turbo?

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by nzcivicracer

Sounds like Trench_Rats oil pump is doing its job eh :thumbsup:

Yeah I guess so but what ever happened to the 65psi limiter he was supposed to install

Originally Posted by nzcivicracer

When are you going to convert back to turbo?

This weekend I suppose. There's going to be a lot of exhaust fabrication to be done.
I bought 200ft of heat wrap in the weekend too which should help keep the temps down under there.

[tarmac-]

sweeet... check that the air valve thingy in the thermostat at the top.. may have a major airlock.

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Well got it running again in the weekend, did a major coolant purge with the top hose raised up and a big funnel full of water in it and idled the car, it was amazing how many bubbles got pushed through even though thermostat was closed.
As it came up to operating temperature the thermostat did open and I quickly plumbed it back into the radiator and that seemed to fix the problem.
I was idling and reving it for at least 1/2 an hour, and the factory temp guage stayed perfectly normal while the Autogauge one was reading a bit high, it was saying 95 degrees which is bullshit it wasn't even close to that, the fan didn't even come on.
The gland on the back of the water pump was leaking last week but it seems to have swollen up and sealed now which is good.

This was all done with the turbo on it and no exhaust, I had to use a piece of wet cardboard to stop the exhaust scorching the paint on the block.

Unfortunately the 7 bar of oil pressure blew the shit straight out of the turbo seals you'll see when i post the videos, it's pretty funny, it smokes like a bastard.

After I'd satisfied myself that I'd solved the cooling problem i started too making the exhaust system up.
It was a mamouth effort but i wanted to get as much as possible done, I started about 10am saturday morning stopped 1230 saturday night back into it at 8am Sunday and finished at 9pm last night.
I have burns all over my arms and no finger prints left on my fingers!
I probably would have gone a bit further but i ran out of acetylene :evil:

The only welding left to do now is the stainless 3" tip which exits the front bumper (I'll leave that too the old man, I suck at welding stainless to mild)
It's 95% complete and i'm really pleased with the way it came out and was worth every penny and hour of effort.

It's pretty tight where the 3" dump fits between the chassis and left hand tension rod but I've heated and peened it in a bit so it doesn't knock when the engine moves.
Mugen solid mounts are coming soon so engine movement shouldn't be a problem for much longer.

Next weekend, the tip gets welded on, the bumper hole cut for it, all the headers and pipes heat wrapped and that should be it.
Only big job left is a cage. :wink:

[Bananaman]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Unfortunately the 7 bar of oil pressure blew the shit straight out of the turbo seals you'll see when i post the videos, it's pretty funny, it smokes like a bastard.

So is it time for a rebuild of the turbo and an oil restrictor?

[nzcivicracer]

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

This was all done with the turbo on it and no exhaust, I had to use a piece of wet cardboard to stop the exhaust scorching the paint on the block.

That must have been loud as f#@k

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Unfortunately the 7 bar of oil pressure blew the shit straight out of the turbo seals you'll see when i post the videos, it's pretty funny, it smokes like a bastard.

Thats a bugger. You cant run a restrictor/regulator on the oil feed to the turbo?

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Mugen solid mounts are coming soon so engine movement shouldn't be a problem for much longer.

You gunna get some too eh. My front mount is poked now, probably from my brakes, so I might upgrade :wink:

Originally Posted by doo0T!doo0T!

Only big job left is a cage.

Good stuff. Who's going to do that for you?

[doo0T!doo0T!]

Originally Posted by Bananaman

So is it time for a rebuild of the turbo and an oil restrictor?

It's already got a restrictor so it must just mean the turbo seals had perished while the turbo was not being used all that time.
I dont think I'll bother re-building it, I think I'll trade it in for a re-built T-28.

Originally Posted by nzcivicracer

That must have been loud as f#@k
You gunna get some too eh. My front mount is poked now, probably from my brakes, so I might upgrade.
Good stuff. Who's going to do that for you?

Not too bad really, the exhaust wheel takes a lot of the energy out so it's no-where near as loud as N/A
Definately just need to find the cash, usual story.
Kenny Bracken in Waiuku, I think I might sell some bodykits to pay for it :wink:

[BTLF3D]

What size hole does the restrictor have? mine done that and the turbo seems fine now