Thread: Close Ratio Gear Set - Quaife

I'm thinking about taking the plunge!

I've heard most of the low ratio gear sets can break gears, especially with the Torquey engines.
I'm tempted to spend a little more up front, and get something ultra reliable, like a Quafie kit.

Thoughts?
For Targa and maybe Honda Cup.

I'm told the ratios are:
2.46 1^st
1.81 2^nd
1.5 3^rd
1.25 4^th
1.04 5^th
Final Drive, choice of: 3.78 OR 4.15 or 4.5 or 4,75

I'm thinking i need a 4.15 or 4.5 final Drive ??

Feedback please.

..... tyson.... i think this one is for you.????????? -

Oh goodie! I'll plug up some numbers later. No doubt Brent will too.I've got a custom one off Quaife gear set. Not cheap but extremely good!

Oh and what size tyre do you plan on using? I'd suggest for Targa a smaller wheel to have it top out just before 200 (any higher is pointless - you're wasting potential torque) and then run a taller tyre for circuit to get +210km (maybe run bigger brakes with the 17's on circuit vs 15 for rally?). Oh and what is your rev limit or planned limiter?

hahahahaha - see - told ya he was your man for the job!

Tyre size is very important I can't run 195/50 any more as Im limited to 195kms

When choosing ratios its usually good to build them around the brakes. You choose the brakes you want based on the application you plan on using it in. Brakes determine the minimum size wheel you have to run. The wheel determines what size tyres are available for you which of course determines your max speed based on the gear ratios .

So yeah as nva2nd said and as i know Brent experienced on the weekend - be sure of what size tyre you want to run because that'll determine your max speed.

Originally Posted by tysonzane

Oh and what size tyre do you plan on using? I'd suggest for Targa a smaller wheel to have it top out just before 200 (any higher is pointless - you're wasting potential torque) and then run a taller tyre for circuit to get +210km (maybe run bigger brakes with the 17's on circuit vs 15 for rally?). Oh and what is your rev limit or planned limiter?

Our std rim and tyre is a 03G 16" 225/45

Alright here we go with a few quick figures. I've based these on 205/50/15 and a conservative 8,500rpm.

Lets start with your OEM ratios (just for comparisons sake):

Top Speed in 1 gear = 64.237 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 5539 RPM dropping 2961 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 98.568 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 5887 RPM dropping 2613 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 142.309 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 6454 RPM dropping 2046 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 187.431 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 6511 RPM dropping 1989 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 244.678 KPH

Pretty shit to be honest. Top speed is way too high for circuit and stupidly high for rallying. RPM drop between gears is also massive and no doubt you drop off vtec regularly during Targa.


And the Quaife Ratios using the 4.5 final drive (4.15 gives a 211.5 kph top speed):
Top Speed in 1 gear = 82.470 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 6254 RPM dropping 2246 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 112.086 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 7044 RPM dropping 1456 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 135.250 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 7083 RPM dropping 1417 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 162.301 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 7072 RPM dropping 1428 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 195.073 KPH


Much better! First thing to see is the lower top speed which means more acceleration. With stock ratios you have a torque output at the wheels in 5th of 488ft lb, with the close ratio setup you've got 613ft lb - tell me how else you'd get that gain in torque on NA engine mods? Next good thing is first gear - much higher speed. This is a little harder to get off the line but if mastered can get you off the line quicker. The other advantage is you'll actually use first in a stage, in the tight stuff and at the 90* intersections you'll actually dial first and get a good jump out of the corner instead of lagging in 2nd out of vtec in dead mans land - you can even use it when taking the tight inside line at the hairpin at Pukekohe when over taking someone . Now the true gain, look at the RPM drop between the ratios - much closer! You're higher up the powerband (making more power) after every shift. Its very close and its closer then alot of the off the shelf cheaper kits out there but it could still be closer again IMO. First to second is alot better then stock and you'll notice the difference but it would be good to have that down to around 1450 rpm like the other gears (even if it means having an even taller first).


How much is this setup looking to cost? Its a really nice spread but its not perfect and to be honest with the price that Quaife is its probably not worth it compared to some of the cheaper options like Gear X and Mfactory. Yes the Quaife is better but not THAT much better and yes the Quaife will overall be a much stronger setup (with all new every gear and counter shaft etc), the Gear X Mfactory stuff is still bloody strong.

Whats the price of a custom Quaife setup in relation to the off the shelf kit?

A plate diff would be another great addition to the box over the shitty factory unit and you'll enjoy it on the road or track. I'd say go for a Gear X setup and Plate diff over the Quaife and factory diff if money is an option.

To be honest this is only JUST scratching the surface and there are so many other variables to look at. What will the ultimate priority be? Tarmac rally or Circuit? because it can be hard finding a middle ground with all the factors that go into making a box.

Update – here are your tyres on these ratios:

Top Speed in 1 gear = 85.220 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 6254 RPM dropping 2246 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 115.824 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 7044 RPM dropping 1456 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 139.760 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 7083 RPM dropping 1417 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 167.712 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 7072 RPM dropping 1428 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 201.578 KPH

PERFECT top speed for Targa – not so perfect for track racing at Pukekohe though. It’s a shame Quaife have such a difference in the final drive between 4.15 and 4.5 – they need a middle ground.

Tyson what are you choosing as the shift point for him?

8,500 - is that what you run at Targa or push it a little further up? Let me know and I'll correct those numbers again.

Originally Posted by tysonzane

8,500 - is that what you run at Targa or push it a little further up? Let me know and I'll correct those numbers again.

I normally change when it hits the rev limiter , or a fraction before.
I drive 2x DC2's, one with factory ECU (std engine), and the other with a link plus (ex strong racing engine). Both are quite different engines, but i suspect they have similar to factory level rev limits.

So whats the max speed a DC2 with typical race horsepower gets up too on any of NZ's major race tracks? Would hate to be going splut splut for the last 400 meters while people take you.

Although its a compromise, it'll be for Targa (200kph speed limit applies) and Track.

I spoke Speedfactor, and Evan thinks the quiafe is much stronger than the others, and than any torqey engine will break gears sooner to later. Greg Spark as an example and his engine is standard'ish. Thus the thought of splashing out $1600 pounds (cringe, dont tell the wife) subject to any discounts found! Remember this includes gears, shafts, and final drive.

Gearbox is currently stuffed with big crunches into 3rd, and a 5th which pops out. Thus i'm deciding between a small or big birthday for it.

Nice gear set!, it will be a great upgrade for most (if not all) applications especially compared to STD. The final drive, LSD, brakes and wheels are variables that need to be considered on an application by application basis.

Tyson has supplied some very good & accurate info.

The final drive is probably the next (tough) decision to make, if you have to go with just one! Then go with the 4.15, the 4.5 will be too short for Pukekohe assuming you will be going there and as you are AKL based I’m guessing this is highly likely, the 4.15 may even be a fraction short. The optimum would be to get both and change final drives depending on what event you are doing. In saying that I have firsthand experience that changing final drives for each event doesn’t necessarily make you faster, but that’s another story.

All after market gear sets are "higher" maintenance than STD and a lot of the life span comes from the gear sets initial setup, IMO this MUST be done by guys with plenty of experience with gear boxes including Honda boxes (there are a few options here).
The gear box in my race car comes out once a year, its stripped down, crack tested and any maintenance that needs to be done is done. Sure this costs a bit (circa $400 each time) but is money well spend and cheap insurance in my book, there is nothing more disheartening than having a failure during in an event, especially if you’re chasing a championship and or are in a position for a good result. Remember to finish first, first you must finish!

LSD’s – personally I prefer the Type R or Quaife (Helical) LSD’s, even though I sell both. The plate diff & my driving style just do not match and I’ve never had major traction issues with the Helical type.

Here’s some food for thought, the cost of a new Quaife gearset & FD will get close to getting you 2 x Mfactory gearkits & FD’s, then you could have 2 full gear boxes, each setup for different events.

No matter which way you go, I highly recommend keep the maintenance up! – change the oil regularly, often what comes out can tell you something’s not right, use a good quality oil (I recommend Motul). Have the box removed and pulled to bits every 7/8 meetings or annually, which ever comes first, by someone good!

Other than that, enjoy!
Cheers
BT

Originally Posted by Coupe-R

I doubt anyone would break the mfactory gearsets let alone their high hp ones. The gear-x stuff broke on gregg sparks I believe.Me I'd go mfactory, I use some their product and it's high quality. I Sure people on here have broken Quaife too?

Think if you talk to Greg you will find that he runs/ran an ATS kit and 4th gear failed

Yeah I've seen a couple of breakages with the ATS.

Originally Posted by motavation

Greg runs ats for sure. Broke it maybe because he was using a solid centre clutch. He runs a sprung centre clutch now and has done many events with no problems.

Gear x kit would be fine for a dc2 type r. They aren't known to be torque monsters! Al would give you all the support you need, with a number of ratios.

Mark

Just put a Exeedy 3 puk into it. Not sure how that affects things.

May be I am biased but I speak from having used a variety of bits over the past three years. The bits inside my box (and it has been the best it has been for the last year and 100% reliable) are a combination of Gear X and OEM. Don't think I could justify the cost of Quaife. Sure it is amongst the best in the world, but it's extremely pricey at our level of product. I would imagine the stuff I have been using in the race car would be largely bullet proof in a road or track day car and performance wise it is awesome. Having said that, there is really nothing on the Honda (or any car) that you can say is bullet proof in a race environment - even with the sprint races we do that are quite short. Hard to explain, but it is just a different level of energy again that goes through componentry. As Brent says, the only way to mitigate any risk on a track day, fast road or race box is relatively regular maintenance and love by people who know what they are doing. If I was getting a box for a road car, I think I would just replicate what I have in the race box or mess about with the final drives to get the desired effect.

Lots of interesting stuff here though!

Anyone got any solutions for people running y1 / s1 / j1 cable boxes, as far as ive looked i cant find anything close ratio / final drive upgrades for them......Sorry if too far off topic

Originally Posted by KPDRFT

any1 got any suggestions for something stronger for M2A4/M2B4 g/boxes?? as in something that might actually hold together with a BigBoost H22a??

sorry for the threadjack too

Whats breaking?